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Post by dexter on Feb 11, 2024 11:57:44 GMT
It's not long since Argyle had serious financial issues themselves if I'm not mistaken? They won't be as daft as to throw money elsewhere where they don't need to. Argyle and Albion both. No one has money to throw at Patriots. |
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Post by milehigh on Feb 11, 2024 22:18:55 GMT
The league ownership situation with 777 is so toxic that it is very unlikely anyone would invest in a side, or the league, until 777 are removed, and a sensible salary cap is introduced to restore a competitive balance to the league.
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Post by dandayr on Feb 12, 2024 0:22:33 GMT
the only basketball that is going to be seen at the new co-op arena in Manchester will be some form of NBA (pre-season or in-season, whatever they can persuade to come) or something like a Euroleague final 4.
the owners are not going to leave 20 plus dates blank in the concert season to have 2000 folk in a venue paying £20 a ticket when they can use half the dates for crowds from 10k to 20k paying ticket prices of £50 to £150 for concerts and other big events and those larger crowds spending in the bars and food courts of the venue.
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Post by LTfan on Feb 12, 2024 9:00:26 GMT
The league ownership situation with 777 is so taxic that it is very unlikely anyone would invest in a side, or the league, until 777 are removed, and a sensible salary cap is introduced to restore a competitive balance to the league. 777 aside for one moment, hypothetically if Manchester City FC wanted to add a basketball team to their family (as per numerous other European football clubs) wouldn't they be in favour of no salary cap? Presumably in this scenario they'd want the basketball team on the European stage - likely EuroCup or Euroleague, and they're not short of money, so I suspect reintroducing a salary cap would actually be a negative for them. |
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Post by milehigh on Feb 13, 2024 4:37:52 GMT
For the benefit of the league as a whole, not an individual club with unlimited budget, a salary cap is needed to restore amd maintain a competitive balance.
When the inevitable collapse of 777 and the league happens, we will be left with 7 BBL clubs who will have to work together to rescue the league and find a sustainable future.
It may well be at a lower level for a few years, but long term it will be healthier than having 3 teams owned by the same organisation, and allowing one club to spend several times more than the combined budget of all the other independent clubs.
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Post by erj14 on Feb 13, 2024 9:10:38 GMT
For the benefit of the league as a whole, not an individual club with unlimited budget, a salary cap is needed to restore amd maintain a competitive balance. When the inevitable collapse of 777 and the league happens, we will be left with 7 BBL clubs who will have to work together to rescue the league and find a sustainable future. It may well be at a lower level for a few years, but long term it will be healthier than having 3 teams owned by the same organisation, and allowing one club to spend several times more than the combined budget of all the other independent clubs. If this was to happen, I'd like to see some type of merger between NBL and BBL. |
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Post by LTfan on Feb 13, 2024 10:29:54 GMT
For the benefit of the league as a whole, not an individual club with unlimited budget, a salary cap is needed to restore amd maintain a competitive balance. When the inevitable collapse of 777 and the league happens, we will be left with 7 BBL clubs who will have to work together to rescue the league and find a sustainable future. It may well be at a lower level for a few years, but long term it will be healthier than having 3 teams owned by the same organisation, and allowing one club to spend several times more than the combined budget of all the other independent clubs. Yes, but we're discussing individual teams being bought, specifically the suggestion that Manchester City FC could buy Manchester Giants. And in that scenario it's likely Manchester City FC would be against restoring a salary cap as it would better enable them to build a Euroleague/Euro Cup basketball team. |
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Post by dexter on Feb 13, 2024 12:05:41 GMT
For the benefit of the league as a whole, not an individual club with unlimited budget, a salary cap is needed to restore amd maintain a competitive balance. When the inevitable collapse of 777 and the league happens, we will be left with 7 BBL clubs who will have to work together to rescue the league and find a sustainable future. It may well be at a lower level for a few years, but long term it will be healthier than having 3 teams owned by the same organisation, and allowing one club to spend several times more than the combined budget of all the other independent clubs. Yes, but we're discussing individual teams being bought, specifically the suggestion that Manchester City FC could buy Manchester Giants. And in that scenario it's likely Manchester City FC would be against restoring a salary cap as it would better enable them to build a Euroleague/Euro Cup basketball team. What would be better for the league then? Man City buying Manchester Giants and bankrolling a team to rival London Lions? Or someone like the owners of Newcastle Eagles or Leicester Riders who try to build the club on a more modest budget? |
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Post by milehigh on Feb 13, 2024 14:57:58 GMT
What would be best would be for all the clubs to have sensible, sustainable business models, on a balanced financial playing field, so that all clubs have a chance of being competitive and sustainable, if managed properly.
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Post by mac on Feb 13, 2024 15:20:40 GMT
What would be best would be for all the clubs to have sensible, sustainable business models, on a balanced financial playing field, so that all clubs have a chance of being competitive and sustainable, if managed properly. The key word being "sustainable". The league learned harsh lessons in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not all clubs survived. Will history repeat itself? I fear so. 😕 |
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Post by dexter on Feb 13, 2024 15:40:07 GMT
What would be best would be for all the clubs to have sensible, sustainable business models, on a balanced financial playing field, so that all clubs have a chance of being competitive and sustainable, if managed properly. From next season (2024/25) it is reported that Dubai will have a team in Euroleague, and that team will also play in ABA League (Western Balkans). If Team Dubai can play in ABA League why can't London Lions? London is probably slightly closer. I like having London Lions playing at a high level in Europe but it does ruin the BBL a bit. |
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Post by dexter on Feb 13, 2024 15:42:23 GMT
What would be best would be for all the clubs to have sensible, sustainable business models, on a balanced financial playing field, so that all clubs have a chance of being competitive and sustainable, if managed properly. The key word being "sustainable". The league learned harsh lessons in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not all clubs survived. Will history repeat itself? I fear so. 😕 Hopefully 777 Partners and London Lions won't drag all the other teams down with them. |
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Post by LTfan on Feb 13, 2024 16:13:50 GMT
Yes, but we're discussing individual teams being bought, specifically the suggestion that Manchester City FC could buy Manchester Giants. And in that scenario it's likely Manchester City FC would be against restoring a salary cap as it would better enable them to build a Euroleague/Euro Cup basketball team. What would be better for the league then? Man City buying Manchester Giants and bankrolling a team to rival London Lions? Or someone like the owners of Newcastle Eagles or Leicester Riders who try to build the club on a more modest budget? It's a good question. I suppose the ideal situation is Man City buying Manchester Giants, so then you'd have 2 powerhouses in the league. And that then attracts something like Newcastle FC investing in Newcastle Eagles, so then you'd have 3 powerhouses in the league. And so on, and so on. And just like that you have a league of teams of Euroleague/EuroCup level and profile. Simple, right?  Another interesting scenario would be the collapse of 777 and the league, with the 7 (or whatever) remaining teams trying to salvage something, and the likes of Manchester City (with 777 no longer on the scene) then being interested in buying Manchester Giants. They'd obviously want to mirror what other football clubs have done across Europe and have a competitive basketball team in Euroleague/EuroCup, so you'd risk simply replicating the current London Lions situation all over again. But would the league really say no, or even be in a position to say no, to Man City buying Manchester Giants? |
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Post by eillo23 on Feb 13, 2024 16:16:03 GMT
What would be best would be for all the clubs to have sensible, sustainable business models, on a balanced financial playing field, so that all clubs have a chance of being competitive and sustainable, if managed properly. You keep pushing this narrative of the league not being competitive? In my eyes the league is the closest it has been for a number of years. In past years you had Newcastle dominating, or Leicester dominating. Now you have London. It works this way in professional sport. Anyone can beat anyone in the league right now. A salary cap is SO restrictive. Yes it requires the league to be well funded and sponsorships/owners to be able to pay for the higher level player contracts. That was never going to happen instantly. The level of talent in the BBL has definitely increased over the last two seasons. Look at other leagues around Europe: you will see certain teams dominating, for example: Denmark - Bakken Bears 13 of last 16. 7 in a row Belgium - Oostende. Last 11 years in a row France - Asvel 3 of last 4. Although a very strong league, however higher profile clubs in Euro comps winning. Russia - CSKA Moscow - 10 of last 13. Germany - Alba Berlin 3 of last 4. Similar to French league. Greek - Panathinaikos & Olympiacos 30 of last 31!!!!!!!! Spain - Real Madrid & Barcelona 11 of last 13 Lithuania - Zalgiris 24 of last 30 seasons Slovenia - Cedevita Olimpija - last 3 I don’t see how London being a stronger team makes the league worse!! Just look at the list above. Some of the best leagues in Europe are dominated by teams. Infact I feel it makes the league better. Other teams have something to chase. Look at Cheshire, they took that Trophy Final so personally! Yes London probably have the league wrapped up… but we know they can be beat in one off games so Playoff Champions is not a given. |
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Post by LTfan on Feb 13, 2024 16:20:01 GMT
What would be best would be for all the clubs to have sensible, sustainable business models, on a balanced financial playing field, so that all clubs have a chance of being competitive and sustainable, if managed properly. You keep pushing this narrative of the league not being competitive? In my eyes the league is the closest it has been for a number of years. In past years you had Newcastle dominating, or Leicester dominating. Now you have London. It works this way in professional sport. Anyone can beat anyone in the league right now. A salary cap is SO restrictive. Yes it requires the league to be well funded and sponsorships/owners to be able to pay for the higher level player contracts. That was never going to happen instantly. The level of talent in the BBL has definitely increased over the last two seasons. Look at other leagues around Europe: you will see certain teams dominating, for example: Denmark - Bakken Bears 13 of last 16. 7 in a row Belgium - Oostende. Last 11 years in a row France - Asvel 3 of last 4. Although a very strong league, however higher profile clubs in Euro comps winning. Russia - CSKA Moscow - 10 of last 13. Germany - Alba Berlin 3 of last 4. Similar to French league. Greek - Panathinaikos & Olympiacos 30 of last 31!!!!!!!! Spain - Real Madrid & Barcelona 11 of last 13 Lithuania - Zalgiris 24 of last 30 seasons Slovenia - Cedevita Olimpija - last 3 I don’t see how London being a stronger team makes the league worse!! Just look at the list above. Some of the best leagues in Europe are dominated by teams. Infact I feel it makes the league better. Other teams have something to chase. Look at Cheshire, they took that Trophy Final so personally! Yes London probably have the league wrapped up… but we know they can be beat in one off games so Playoff Champions is not a given. A very good post. And I think if people really thought about it they probably don't have an issue with London Lions dominating the league with their massive budget... they have an issue with the owners of the London Lions also essentially owning the league. That is what is unique here. |
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Post by D44 on Feb 13, 2024 16:30:50 GMT
*owning a minority share whilst pumping hundreds of thousands of their own money giving us all good quality YouTube footage from virtually every game completely free of charge.
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Post by eillo23 on Feb 13, 2024 16:41:41 GMT
I agree with that. 777 owning the Lions and the BBL is not a good look and I would like that to go change so they have the same amount of ownership as the rest of the teams in the League. I don’t think their plan was to ever buy a share of the league, but it turned out to be more of a necessity. Let’s be real here, the BBL was in a shit state before 777 got involved. I don’t hate on them for trying to improve it. Fingers crossed more investment comes into the league and they can step back from the role of shareholder. I don’t think you would need to ask them twice to do this!
I can only speak for myself, and personally I have enjoyed British basketball more the past two years then I for the previous 10 before those. Whether it be the BBL, London in Eurocup, Caledonia in Europecup, and Bristol and Newcastle in ENBL. It has been great to watch it develop.
We have this incredible new free to watch footage of nearly EVERY game, but people still find something to moan about. It wasn’t that long ago I was watching BBL games via a robotic camera that was focused down the wrong end of the court on a fast break.
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Post by D44 on Feb 13, 2024 16:45:54 GMT
I agree with that. 777 owning the Lions and the BBL is not a good look and I would like that to go change so they have the same amount of ownership as the rest of the teams in the League. I don’t think their plan was to ever buy a share of the league, but it turned out to be more of a necessity. Let’s be real here, the BBL was in a shit state before 777 got involved. I don’t hate on them for trying to improve it. Fingers crossed more investment comes into the league and they can step back from the role of shareholder. I don’t think you would need to ask them twice to do this! I can only speak for myself, and personally I have enjoyed British basketball more the past two years then I for the previous 10 before those. Whether it be the BBL, London in Eurocup, Caledonia in Europecup, and Bristol and Newcastle in ENBL. It has been great to watch it develop. We have this incredible new free to watch footage of nearly EVERY game, but people still find something to moan about. It wasn’t that long ago I was watching BBL games via a robotic camera that was focused down the wrong end of the court on a fast break. And prior to 777 the league grifted us for a tenner for the privilege 🤣 |
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benji
Sixth Man
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Post by benji on Feb 13, 2024 17:50:01 GMT
*owning a minority share whilst pumping hundreds of thousands of their own money giving us all good quality YouTube footage from virtually every game completely free of charge. * someone else's money? |
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Post by eillo23 on Feb 13, 2024 18:00:12 GMT
*owning a minority share whilst pumping hundreds of thousands of their own money giving us all good quality YouTube footage from virtually every game completely free of charge. * someone else's money? That’s normally how business's run yes, by borrowing money. You’re in for a shock if you are just realising this 😅especially in venture capital. |
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