BBL ‘days away from administration’

[tallerman]

Aug 7, 2024 15:48:05 GMT irf said:

Do the Lithuanians actually need to take on Lions - surely there will be huge debts etc

Why not just start a new club in London in the new league?

This attitude is one of the problems with British Basketball. Lions, whether you like them or not have years of history. Without generations of history you don't get generational support. You'll find kids all over the country that support a football team because their dad and their dad's dad and even their dad's dad's dad. We see that so rarely in British basketball. I support the raiders because my dad does, the same reason my son and daughters do.

British basketball wants to sell itself as family friendly but if you wipe put franchises the way we do in this country you don't get family ties to a club, you get a family who enjoyed a night of entertainment.

Wiping out Lions, no matter how much sense it makes to start a fresh wipes out a generation of fans that you don't get back without 30 years of history

[SamH]

I assume if they are taking it on its because they can get it cheap, cheaper than setting up a new club, and perhaps less hassle?

[SamH]

I don't know Tallerman, the London Lions is hardly steeped in history is it? I don't even know - is it the same franchise that was once Hemel and Watford Royals and went through various incarnations since then? Even if it is, not much of the original support base would have followed the team down to London from Hemel. I think what you said would be more applicable to Riders, Sharks, Eagles, etc. but Lions as a London based team was still relatively new.

[isthaturinal]

Lions may have a bit of history
But zero generation fan base

Did you not listers to coach Ben Thomas he told us Lions have no fans

[tallerman]

They were formed in 1977, only newcastle 1976 and Leicester 1967 have been around longer. They're the current euro cup women's champions and have won 3 of the last bbl playoff titles right? To say they have no history is very disrespectful.

We can all sit here and say they have no fans but unless you're a fan you wouldn't know. Half of you, if not more, see pats and the new raiders because they're a Plymouth based team in the bbl regardless of the fact that raiders still exist. I don't blame you for being wrong, as I said before unless you're a fan you probably wont know better.

How hard would've it been for Dan Clark to take over scorchers rather than starting a new team? Scorchers are relatively knew but will still have fans that have been there for 10 years now.

Building on clubs year on year is very important in building the future of our sport but it's often forgot about because it's convenient to do something else

[naenia]

Apparently there’s even more messiness at the Lions with the administrators contradicting the Lithuanians’ claim they’ve bought the club. They’re saying they’ve had 2 bids in and are expecting 1 more so nothing’s been sold as of yet.

Surely one of the reasons we’re still waiting on league news is confusion over whether Lions will be participating - and who they’ll actually be if/when they do.

[johnjack]

Aug 7, 2024 16:53:20 GMT naenia said:

Apparently there’s even more messiness at the Lions with the administrators contradicting the Lithuanians’ claim they’ve bought the club. They’re saying they’ve had 2 bids in and are expecting 1 more so nothing’s been sold as of yet.

Surely one of the reasons we’re still waiting on league news is confusion over whether Lions will be participating - and who they’ll actually be if/when they do.

They have no history in the same way Man City have no history, compared to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United

[notoriousbigz]

Aug 7, 2024 20:12:03 GMT johnjack said:

Aug 7, 2024 16:53:20 GMT naenia said:

Apparently there’s even more messiness at the Lions with the administrators contradicting the Lithuanians’ claim they’ve bought the club. They’re saying they’ve had 2 bids in and are expecting 1 more so nothing’s been sold as of yet.

Surely one of the reasons we’re still waiting on league news is confusion over whether Lions will be participating - and who they’ll actually be if/when they do.

They have no history in the same way Man City have no history, compared to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United

There's not many in the BBL who have a decent history compared to Liverpool and Man Utd tbf mate haha

[irf]

Aug 7, 2024 16:38:27 GMT SamH said:

I assume if they are taking it on its because they can get it cheap, cheaper than setting up a new club, and perhaps less hassle?

Can't imagine how it can be cheaper?

What about the contract obligations they have to Lions players?

That I assumed would disappear alongside Lions

And aren't they having a new name anyway?

[cosbyrider]

The admin are being coy here.

There’s a charge from the Lithuanians. They’ve serviced some form of a debt and provided some funding.

Administrators can’t state preferences but if you have bidded to buy the club and there’s an ability to clear off some debts, then clearly the Lithuanian bid will be a favourite

[SamH]

Perhaps their bid includes settling some of those contract obligations and its still cheaper than starting a new franchise from scratch?

Or maybe the Lithuanians are prepared to pay more in recognition of long standing history and tradition of this once proud franchise, because they have always admired British basketball from afar and how ingrained in society it is. 😇

[cosbyrider]

I suspect the red rape in setting up a new business as a foreign individual or company is so complex that’s it’s less hassle taking over an existing business

[tallerman]

If you start from new you won't have an import license and will only be able to sign British players until one is granted.

You won't have scoreboards, flooring and game day stuff

You won't have a host of volunteers needed to sustain the business

You won't have the social media reach that takes a while to build up

[irf]

Aug 8, 2024 8:33:31 GMT tallerman said:

If you start from new you won't have an import license and will only be able to sign British players until one is granted.

You won't have scoreboards, flooring and game day stuff

You won't have a host of volunteers needed to sustain the business

You won't have the social media reach that takes a while to build up

How do those costs compare to the remaining liability just on dekkers contract though?

Not counting all the other unpaid wages and bills?

I honestly don't see how the maths can add up to take on Lions liabilities?

Maybe it's just a brand name they are looking to buy?

I get your point about what happens to loyal fans and volunteers but it should be possible to keep some of those on board providing the new club shows good intentions and communicates well with them

Obviously location they play more important than anything

Would imagine the old Lions will owe the copper box money alongside other local creditors as well sadly?

The new guys aren't the bad guys and just want to keep pro basketball going in London if they can I guess

[tallerman]

They're buying from administration, those costs are not the value that they are. Pats bought 20k worth of raiders stuff through liquidators for £500. The price they should pay, will be nowhere near the price they actually pay.

[irf]

Aug 8, 2024 10:54:15 GMT tallerman said:

They're buying from administration, those costs are not the value that they are. Pats bought 20k worth of raiders stuff through liquidators for £500. The price they should pay, will be nowhere near the price they actually pay.

Yes you are correct

“We have set a deadline of Friday at noon for bids for the trading assets of London Lions. We are expecting three offers. Two have come in and we are expecting one more."

I was mistakenly thinking Lions had legal guys selling the going concern

And of course the people who buy the assets may not need to be using them for a London basketball team depending what the assets are that are up for grabs


Although it looks like they want to sell all the assets together

[SamH]

Yeah I don't know exactly how it works but I imagine there could be some negotiation with the administrators, who will always look for someone to take a business over if they can and it's viable. But it could mean the negotiation is they don't take on any of the debts, or just a small percentage of it. I doubt very much wages would be included for last season or contracts ahead. I imagine Dekker's contract would be considered nullified and especially if he has already signed elsewhere now, he wouldn't be able to come back anyway.

I would have thought it is better and cheaper to pick up the Lions franchise rather than start from scratch, especially as they would have those issues Tallerman highlighted to resolve. Whether the fans continue to come, who knows. I do think there will be an increase in Lithuanian fans going and that can only be a good thing as they are so passionate and create a great atmosphere!

[donthatetheplayer]

Following on, the Administrators have been clear that they are selling the trading assets and that the business hasn't been sold. Obviously two different things. Reading between the lines, the business not being sold, show that bidders will pick apart the IP/branding/social channels etc and anything else worth salvaging but walk away from the business itself. That could mean that the winning bid has to apply for court clearance to go forward to legally be able to phoenix the lions name. That could be a lengthy process. I think it's entirely plausable the new league carries on without them and they become part of a Year 2 plan. I'd get going with the clubs that are ready, even if it's 7 or so. Get Year 1 up and running, then plenty of time to get the other 2-3 clubs set up for next Summer. The delays in formally announcing a league surely surround this Lions deal/no deal situation. How long do they wait?

[irf]

It's tough

You can understand them wanting to give a new London club time

Also maybe a Manchester club too?

Could they start the season with a cup tournament in September between the definite teams like they did before maybe?

To give more time?

Then start a league in October?

[foxtrot27]

So we all can now agree that a tip off mid Sept is no longer possible or practical??