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Post by blueskies99 on May 10, 2023 21:47:56 GMT
Lots of people used to say the same thing about the Eagles when they would win everything. Which same things? There has been a lot said on this subject……so if you could clarify that would be helpful. |
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Post by blueskies99 on May 10, 2023 21:49:21 GMT
The way people talk here we sound like we want to go back to 2009 when we struggled for teams and squads were 6 deep. Rubbish!! Since 2009 the league has improved in a sensible, equitable and sustainable manner. |
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Post by mac on May 10, 2023 22:34:37 GMT
777 Partners control more than 50% of the league. They were able to force through the cancellation of the salary cap. I suspect the same with cancelling the Cup. That is detrimental to nine clubs and more so for the bottom two. The only club truly benefiting is Lions. It would be commercial suicide for other clubs to even try and compete. BBL a plaything? You betcha, sadly.
Enjoy it while you can Lions.
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Flexo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 28
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Post by Flexo on May 10, 2023 22:44:49 GMT
The way people talk here we sound like we want to go back to 2009 when we struggled for teams and squads were 6 deep. Do you mean the 2009 where there was 13 teams in the league rather than the current 10? |
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Post by ScottishBasketballFan on May 11, 2023 7:32:01 GMT
The way people talk here we sound like we want to go back to 2009 when we struggled for teams and squads were 6 deep. Rubbish!! Since 2009 the league has improved in a sensible, equitable and sustainable manner. I'd disagree, just purely based on the turnover of teams who've came and gone from the league since 2009. |
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Post by erj14 on May 11, 2023 7:40:28 GMT
The way people talk here we sound like we want to go back to 2009 when we struggled for teams and squads were 6 deep. That's a reach, no one has said anything like that? |
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Post by erj14 on May 11, 2023 7:44:18 GMT
777 Partners control more than 50% of the league. They were able to force through the cancellation of the salary cap. I suspect the same with cancelling the Cup. That is detrimental to nine clubs and more so for the bottom two. The only club truly benefiting is Lions. It would be commercial suicide for other clubs to even try and compete. BBL a plaything? You betcha, sadly. Enjoy it while you can Lions. I wasn't a huge fan of scrapping the salary cap, but it wasn't forced through by 777/London. I think all but one team agreed to it, in a sort of 'let's see what happens'type agreement. |
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Post by D44 on May 11, 2023 8:38:45 GMT
Lots of people used to say the same thing about the Eagles when they would win everything. Which same things? There has been a lot said on this subject……so if you could clarify that would be helpful. During the Fab era between 2004 and 2014 (so discounting his first two and final two seasons) Eagles won 24 out of 40 available trophies including 2 sweeps. Eagles had many of the same accusations around spoiling the competition by having a bigger budget and let's not forget the old "plastic Brits" phrase that used to get thrown around. Then teams with bigger budgets and better player came along, first Riders, then Lions. |
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Post by WeetaNix on May 11, 2023 9:21:43 GMT
The way things are heading London will win a lot more than 24 of 40 trophies.
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Post by blueskies99 on May 11, 2023 9:27:42 GMT
Rubbish!! Since 2009 the league has improved in a sensible, equitable and sustainable manner. I'd disagree, just purely based on the turnover of teams who've came and gone from the league since 2009. So your argument is “purely based on the turnover of teams”…….ignoring all the other factors?…OK |
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Post by blueskies99 on May 11, 2023 9:29:36 GMT
777 Partners control more than 50% of the league. They were able to force through the cancellation of the salary cap. I suspect the same with cancelling the Cup. That is detrimental to nine clubs and more so for the bottom two. The only club truly benefiting is Lions. It would be commercial suicide for other clubs to even try and compete. BBL a plaything? You betcha, sadly. Enjoy it while you can Lions. I wasn't a huge fan of scrapping the salary cap, but it wasn't forced through by 777/London. I think all but one team agreed to it, in a sort of 'let's see what happens'type agreement. I rest my case……it was a brain-fart.  |
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Post by blueskies99 on May 11, 2023 9:38:09 GMT
Which same things? There has been a lot said on this subject……so if you could clarify that would be helpful. During the Fab era between 2004 and 2014 (so discounting his first two and final two seasons) Eagles won 24 out of 40 available trophies including 2 sweeps. Eagles had many of the same accusations around spoiling the competition by having a bigger budget and let's not forget the old "plastic Brits" phrase that used to get thrown around. Then teams with bigger budgets and better player came along, first Riders, then Lions. How do you know so much about the teams budgets…….are you an accountant for the BBL?  During this period there was a salary cap in operation so a teams budget was based upon their creativity/hard work/nous etc. If a team succeeded in gaining income/advantage from this then good luck to them whoever they are. Good ideas were then adopted by other teams along the lines of best practice. I can’t see anything wrong with that as it is a good foundation for the clubs to grow organically. Pulling the salary cap carpet from under the teams was always going to be a problem. |
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Post by D44 on May 11, 2023 9:50:53 GMT
During the Fab era between 2004 and 2014 (so discounting his first two and final two seasons) Eagles won 24 out of 40 available trophies including 2 sweeps. Eagles had many of the same accusations around spoiling the competition by having a bigger budget and let's not forget the old "plastic Brits" phrase that used to get thrown around. Then teams with bigger budgets and better player came along, first Riders, then Lions. How do you know so much about the teams budgets…….are you an accountant for the BBL? During this period there was a salary cap in operation so a teams budget was based upon their creativity/hard work/nous etc. If a team succeeded in gaining income/advantage from this then good luck to them whoever they are. Good ideas were then adopted by other teams along the lines of best practice. I can’t see anything wrong with that as it is a good foundation for the clubs to grow organically. Pulling the salary cap carpet from under the teams was always going to be a problem. I know what I've heard. Accounts were never particularly transparent. I think your putting too much emphasis on the importance of the salary cap. There was always work arounds and, as above, very little transparency. Ultimately teams just spent the most that they could and luckily most teams (not all) did it responsibly. I don't think this was down to the cap whatsoever, just responsible owners living with their means. I'm no London/777 fan but as I've said plenty of times before if the other option was scraping by and playing in leisure centres forever then I'm all for it. |
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Post by LTfan on May 11, 2023 10:04:52 GMT
The way people talk here we sound like we want to go back to 2009 when we struggled for teams and squads were 6 deep. Rubbish!! Since 2009 the league has improved in a sensible, equitable and sustainable manner. I've got to disagree. From 2009-2020 the BBL wasn't improving, it was stagnant. And in real terms if you're not moving forwards you're moving backwards. What the BBL (which yes, has 777 at the wheel) are doing now is taking a calculated risk to move the league forward. As with all risks, it might fail, but at least we're now see real attempts at growth. |
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Post by eagles18000 on May 11, 2023 11:06:56 GMT
1. dekker is not washed up and koufos didn’t dominate the league.
2. The word growth is such a misnomer. It’s not growth to spend an enormous amount of money. It’s investment. The reality is that clubs have grown significantly and organically over the last decade (leicester newcastle and sheffield arenas being direct evidence of real growth, cheshire, manchester and glasgow also in new and better venues)
London have invested. That’s very different. It may work long term, it may not. But to say no growth in the last decade and then throw London in as an example of current growth is just a misunderstanding of what equals growth.
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Post by blueskies99 on May 11, 2023 11:19:30 GMT
Rubbish!! Since 2009 the league has improved in a sensible, equitable and sustainable manner. I've got to disagree. From 2009-2020 the BBL wasn't improving, it was stagnant. And in real terms if you're not moving forwards you're moving backwards. What the BBL (which yes, has 777 at the wheel) are doing now is taking a calculated risk to move the league forward. As with all risks, it might fail, but at least we're now see real attempts at growth. Stagnant eh? 2016 The first British basketball organisation to build their own arena, which led to others following suit. 2016 The play-off finals moved from the ageing Wembley arena to the modern O2 arena. The adoption of digital media to grow the sport…..Facebook, Twitter etc. 2018 The first Britain’s basketball team to enter a European competition for 11 years and these are off the top of my head. If that is your view of stagnation then we will agree to disagree……. |
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Post by blueskies99 on May 11, 2023 11:22:16 GMT
How do you know so much about the teams budgets…….are you an accountant for the BBL? During this period there was a salary cap in operation so a teams budget was based upon their creativity/hard work/nous etc. If a team succeeded in gaining income/advantage from this then good luck to them whoever they are. Good ideas were then adopted by other teams along the lines of best practice. I can’t see anything wrong with that as it is a good foundation for the clubs to grow organically. Pulling the salary cap carpet from under the teams was always going to be a problem. I know what I've heard. Accounts were never particularly transparent. I think your putting too much emphasis on the importance of the salary cap. There was always work arounds and, as above, very little transparency. Ultimately teams just spent the most that they could and luckily most teams (not all) did it responsibly. I don't think this was down to the cap whatsoever, just responsible owners living with their means. I'm no London/777 fan but as I've said plenty of times before if the other option was scraping by and playing in leisure centres forever then I'm all for it. I think the first sentence speaks volumes. As for scraping by in leisure centres, I refer you to my response to LTfan. |
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Post by LTfan on May 11, 2023 11:56:39 GMT
I've got to disagree. From 2009-2020 the BBL wasn't improving, it was stagnant. And in real terms if you're not moving forwards you're moving backwards. What the BBL (which yes, has 777 at the wheel) are doing now is taking a calculated risk to move the league forward. As with all risks, it might fail, but at least we're now see real attempts at growth. Stagnant eh? 2016 The first British basketball organisation to build their own arena, which led to others following suit. 2016 The play-off finals moved from the ageing Wembley arena to the modern O2 arena. The adoption of digital media to grow the sport…..Facebook, Twitter etc. 2018 The first Britain’s basketball team to enter a European competition for 11 years and these are off the top of my head. If that is your view of stagnation then we will agree to disagree……. Leicester and Newcastle building their own arenas... yes, I'll give you that. But everything else - the play-off final moving from Wembley Arena to the O2 Arena isn't really that significant of a change to me, one team entering the 4th tier of European competition once and not winning a single game isn't really progress, and whilst the BBL adopted social/digital media (it would have been archaic if it hadn't) I'd describe most of their efforts as amateurish - much like their attempts at streaming games or getting actual television coverage. Not to mention clubs going bankrupt and a continuous struggle to have a successful franchise in the countries capital city. I can't say there wasn't some progress made between 2009 - 2020, there was, but it felt like the league was just surviving, not progressing. Maybe a Leicester fan looks back on that period differently to a London fan, in the same way maybe a London fan looks differently on what's happening now to a Leicester fan. |
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Post by cosbyrider on May 11, 2023 11:58:46 GMT
I think the assumption from 777 is that building a team strong enough to compete in European competition will push the sport into a British conscious.
I am not convinced. It’s very the 100 to the rest of County Cricket. You get people hooked via TV for example, Lions look capable of EuroLeague all of sudden but then they want to sample it live and the drop-off to a local event is huge.
These tactics work when it’s international level in the UK rather than within domestic competition because British sport is so regionally tribal.
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Post by foxtrot27 on May 11, 2023 13:10:39 GMT
I think the assumption from 777 is that building a team strong enough to compete in European competition will push the sport into a British conscious. I am not convinced. It’s very the 100 to the rest of County Cricket. You get people hooked via TV for example, Lions look capable of EuroLeague all of sudden but then they want to sample it live and the drop-off to a local event is huge. These tactics work when it’s international level in the UK rather than within domestic competition because British sport is so regionally tribal. There is no commercial path to success by competing in Europe. Ask Barca and Real Madrid who have lost €250-300M between them the last 4 years. Also, there are not many Brits good enough to compete at that level to convince the British public that there is a reasonable shot of winning any real silverware. It’s a fools errand and once 777 racks up enough losses, they will chuck it in! Why isn’t BBL on BBC? Or any real TV outlet? Buried behind the paywall on Sky and BT will not build audiences. If the BBC really pushed, they can help BBL tremendously. Crickets! |
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