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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 7:54:47 GMT
In fairness when Eagles took Corey Johnson from Riders that was a step in the right direction But they needed more and better quality around him and they might have moved forward rather than back Corey Johnson played all his best games in a riders shirt tho IRF In a much deeper better quality squad with a better coach and better system? Johnson was just part of a much larger jigsaw puzzle at Riders Totally different at Eagles Eagles owner doesn't get what it takes to put a deep squad together He's miles away from what it takes tbh It's hard enough getting a club to compete with Riders. Let alone Lions now. I'm not having a go or gloating here Just being realistic how far off Eagles are from being competitive Best player right now is Defoe - the oldest guy at the club It's ridiculous really for a club of Eagles stature |
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Post by tallerman on Dec 2, 2022 12:34:39 GMT
Hard enough to compete with gladiators right now too irf
Riders are on a massive downward spiral, you'll realise soon enough
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 13:04:11 GMT
Hard enough to compete with gladiators right now too irf Riders are on a massive downward spiral, you'll realise soon enough Two things could happen for Riders to have a huge downward spiral We lose Kev Routledge as owner Or We lose Rob as coach Whilst they are still running things we've nothing to worry about at all (Edit losing Jelson Homes as main sponsor would also hurt badly) |
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Post by erj14 on Dec 2, 2022 14:22:43 GMT
I find this statement and it's timing to be absolutely bewildering. It doesn't fill me with confidence at all. You can't blame lack of chemistry on not being good in the BBL, almost every single team in the league change every single year.
I'd much rather a statement along the lines of 'we got recruitment badly wrong, lessons will be learned for next year'. Instead we get this wishy washy bulls**t. Why even bother with this? Just stay quiet!
If what this statement says is the genuinely held belief at the club, then things aren't going to improve any time soon.
As other people in this thread have alluded to, we have probably one and a half imports (Hamlet has been our only scoring threat and Cohn has been ok in some games) playing well at the moment. Steutel obviously doesn't fancy Shelton, why is he still here? It's a complete waste of an import slot. Donovan Johnson is complete liability, but I could've told them that from his season at Giants. Jury is still out on Everett for me, there's a player in there somewhere.
I actually think our UK passport players aren't the problem. Defoe has been good, but we've relied on him way too much. Kyle Johnson has been good and scored the ball well while at least competing on defense. Mockford has managed to look even worse than I expected, looking completely disinterested in some games.
I'm wondering at this point, if maybe bringing in a GM with genuine experience and contacts might be the way to go. Let them oversee BBL operations and recruitment let the existing managing structure concentrate on Foundation type stuff. Just an idea.
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 14:34:51 GMT
Who and how did Eagles recruit players like Fab, Fletch, Charles Smith and Defoe etc in the old days?
I realise these guys stayed around but initially they needed recruiting?
So at some stage someone at Eagles knew what they were doing for sure?
Did they get poached from other clubs or get recruited as rookies?
Eagles have recruited dozens of players (imports and GB) since these guys but you could probably count on the fingers of one hand the ones that delivered anything worthwhile
This failing in recruitment goes back 5 years plus now?
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 14:36:02 GMT
I find this statement and it's timing to be absolutely bewildering. It doesn't fill me with confidence at all. You can't blame lack of chemistry on not being good in the BBL, almost every single team in the league change every single year. I'd much rather a statement along the lines of 'we got recruitment badly wrong, lessons will be learned for next year'. Instead we get this wishy washy bulls**t. Why even bother with this? Just stay quiet! If what this statement says is the genuinely held belief at the club, then things aren't going to improve any time soon. As other people in this thread have alluded to, we have probably one and a half imports (Hamlet has been our only scoring threat and Cohn has been ok in some games) playing well at the moment. Steutel obviously doesn't fancy Shelton, why is he still here? It's a complete waste of an import slot. Donovan Johnson is complete liability, but I could've told them that from his season at Giants. Jury is still out on Everett for me, there's a player in there somewhere. I actually think our UK passport players aren't the problem. Defoe has been good, but we've relied on him way too much. Kyle Johnson has been good and scored the ball well while at least competing on defense. Mockford has managed to look even worse than I expected, looking completely disinterested in some games. I'm wondering at this point, if maybe bringing in a GM with genuine experience and contacts might be the way to go. Let them oversee BBL operations and recruitment let the existing managing structure concentrate on Foundation type stuff. Just an idea. I agree the statement actually comes across as naive tbh Is Paul Blake just a very successful businessman who has run out of basketball ideas? I don't doubt he's an absolute legend for what he's done for Eagles as their owner No doubt about that at all The idea of him appointing a basketball GM might not be a bad one tbh The budget appears to be there, the arena is there, the fans are there. Pretty much sold out tonight on a Thursday night!!! So much at Eagles is spot on |
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Post by erj14 on Dec 2, 2022 14:49:03 GMT
I think Fab and Dave F did all the recruitment back in our successful period, but that's just from what I heard. I think Fab would spend the summers back in the states and would guess and probably had a load of contacts.
Whichever way it's being done now, clearly isn't working.
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Post by D44 on Dec 2, 2022 14:55:02 GMT
Who and how did Eagles recruit players like Fab, Fletch, Charles Smith and Defoe etc in the old days? I realise these guys stayed around but initially they needed recruiting? So at some stage someone at Eagles knew what they were doing for sure? Did they have get poached from other clubs or get recruited as rookies? Eagles have recruited dozens of players (imports and GB) since these guys but you could probably count on the fingers of one hand the ones that delivered anything worthwhile This failing in recruitment goes back 5 years plus now? Dave Forrester was responsible for a lot of the scouting/recruitment up until he stepped back. The last team he was involved in recruiting (I think anyway) was the Covid season. |
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Post by dexter on Dec 2, 2022 15:02:37 GMT
I read the statement as “we’re no good and we don’t expect that to change, but you should still come and watch us lose”.
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 16:05:41 GMT
If they aren't having any luck with rookies can't they just poach proven players in BBL?
Spend a bit more of the gate money?
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 16:07:05 GMT
I read the statement as “we’re no good and we don’t expect that to change, but you should still come and watch us lose”. And that's exactly what the fans are doing tbf Sold out virtually tonight according to twitter Can I watch this on YouTube tonight? |
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Post by dexter on Dec 2, 2022 16:47:34 GMT
I read the statement as “we’re no good and we don’t expect that to change, but you should still come and watch us lose”. And that's exactly what the fans are doing tbf Sold out virtually tonight according to twitter Can I watch this on YouTube tonight? You can. Newcastle Eagles vs Cheshire Phoenix is the game on Sky Sports. I’ll probably watch it. I am considering watching Fenerbahce vs Real Madrid because I have Euroleague TV and I never watch it. |
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 17:01:28 GMT
And that's exactly what the fans are doing tbf Sold out virtually tonight according to twitter Can I watch this on YouTube tonight? You can. Newcastle Eagles vs Cheshire Phoenix is the game on Sky Sports. I’ll probably watch it. I am considering watching Fenerbahce vs Real Madrid because I have Euroleague TV and I never watch it. Looking forward to this then Makes a change from the football |
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Post by tallerman on Dec 2, 2022 17:30:15 GMT
As a clubless fan the sky game provides a great Friday night game. Looking forward to the game tonight.
Irf you've lost more games than last year before we hit December. Recruitment has produced no starting pg after 3 attempts (2 if you're not on the wind up) way out of the title race. Unlikely to win a trophy at this rate. How is this not a downward spiral?
Even if im not on the wind up you've got to admit this seasonnis considerably worse than the last
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 18:14:36 GMT
As a clubless fan the sky game provides a great Friday night game. Looking forward to the game tonight. Irf you've lost more games than last year before we hit December. Recruitment has produced no starting pg after 3 attempts (2 if you're not on the wind up) way out of the title race. Unlikely to win a trophy at this rate. How is this not a downward spiral? Even if im not on the wind up you've got to admit this seasonnis considerably worse than the last Please don't take us off topic!!! Lol (But seeing as you asked) Losing Geno was going to be season changing We all knew that Still going to be winning far far more than we lose Winning a trophy against this Lions squad was always going to be a big ask But I wouldn't rule out Rob somehow finding a way Success is all relative of course Our downward spiral results would be dream comes true results for the Eagles owner right now |
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Post by Stephen Abootman on Dec 2, 2022 18:42:34 GMT
A pretty lame piece I agree. Basically reads like excuse making... Without really making it clear what the excuse is supposed to be. Particularly irritating the way it makes challenges that every BBL club faces routinely sound like they're unique to Newcastle Eagles.
Feels to me like the notion Eagles have some unusually difficult 'rebuild' job on their hands has been doing the rounds almost every season since about 2016. The reality is they've had more than enough time now to find some new winning formula that doesn't revolve around the same core personnel they were succeeding with 5-10 years ago. This isn't the NBA. There are tons of players out there who are good enough to win with at this level. And for a club with one of the biggest budgets in the league, they shouldn't be that impossibly difficult to find.
Not sure you can pin it solely on recruitment. As a collection of individuals, I'd actually argue last season's team was good enough to be pretty competitive in the BBL. I'm not buying that Eagles got a lesser version of Corey Johnson. In fact he put up career best numbers more or less across the board. Good ol' Fletch was still there. Plus Peel, Gordon. Kyle Williams seemed like a decent enough plastic Brit. Person wasn't terrible. There's no way that team should have gone 11-25.
Whoever you want to point the finger at, there's no question Eagles are the biggest underachievers in the BBL right now. And I'm not believing that the deck is massively stacked against them because they've got a new coach and have had to sign a bunch of new players. In fact I think they have every advantage over most BBL teams. This is a club that should be perennially among the best in the league and should have serious designs on flying the flag regularly for the BBL in Europe. They're so far short of that level right now it's embarrassing.
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Post by tallerman on Dec 2, 2022 18:44:55 GMT
A pretty lame piece I agree. Basically reads like excuse making... Without really making it clear what the excuse is supposed to be. Particularly irritating the way it makes challenges that every BBL club faces routinely sound like they're unique to Newcastle Eagles. Feels to me like the notion Eagles have some unusually difficult 'rebuild' job on their hands has been doing the rounds almost every season since about 2016. The reality is they've had more than enough time now to find some new winning formula that doesn't revolve around the same core personnel they were succeeding with 5-10 years ago. This isn't the NBA. There are tons of players out there who are good enough to win with at this level. And for a club with one of the biggest budgets in the league, they shouldn't be that impossibly difficult to find. Not sure you can pin it solely on recruitment. As a collection of individuals, I'd actually argue last season's team was good enough to be pretty competitive in the BBL. I'm not buying that Eagles got a lesser version of Corey Johnson. In fact he put up career best numbers more or less across the board. Good ol' Fletch was still there. Plus Peel, Gordon. Kyle Williams seemed like a decent enough plastic Brit. Person wasn't terrible. There's no way that team should have gone 11-25. Whoever you want to point the finger at, there's no question Eagles are the biggest underachievers in the BBL right now. And I'm not believing that the deck is massively stacked against them because they've got a new coach and have had to sign a bunch of new players. In fact I think they have every advantage over most BBL teams. This is a club that should be perennially among the best in the league and should have serious designs on flying the flag regularly for the BBL in Europe. They're so far short of that level right now it's embarrassing. Hard to find fault with any of this |
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Post by tallerman on Dec 2, 2022 18:46:42 GMT
As a clubless fan the sky game provides a great Friday night game. Looking forward to the game tonight. Irf you've lost more games than last year before we hit December. Recruitment has produced no starting pg after 3 attempts (2 if you're not on the wind up) way out of the title race. Unlikely to win a trophy at this rate. How is this not a downward spiral? Even if im not on the wind up you've got to admit this seasonnis considerably worse than the last Please don't take us off topic!!! Lol (But seeing as you asked) Losing Geno was going to be season changing We all knew that Still going to be winning far far more than we lose Winning a trophy against this Lions squad was always going to be a big ask But I wouldn't rule out Rob somehow finding a way Success is all relative of course Our downward spiral results would be dream comes true results for the Eagles owner right now But you used to be dominant. You're essentially Newcastle 6-9 years ago. Clinging on to rob being the messiah like fab was in newcastle. Beginning of the end now, before you know it you'll be losing to a Plymouth franchise |
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Post by irf on Dec 2, 2022 19:44:26 GMT
Please don't take us off topic!!! Lol (But seeing as you asked) Losing Geno was going to be season changing We all knew that Still going to be winning far far more than we lose Winning a trophy against this Lions squad was always going to be a big ask But I wouldn't rule out Rob somehow finding a way Success is all relative of course Our downward spiral results would be dream comes true results for the Eagles owner right now But you used to be dominant. You're essentially Newcastle 6-9 years ago. Clinging on to rob being the messiah like fab was in newcastle. Beginning of the end now, before you know it you'll be losing to a Plymouth franchise We've raised the bar of BBL Lions coming in want to raise it further All good |
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Post by swoopingeagle on Dec 2, 2022 20:01:54 GMT
As a long-time lurker both on here and whatsbev (though i did occasionally post on there) I note that this thread has gone in a predictable direction; IRF telling us that Eagles are doomed which will then be followed up by a series of long replies anyone daring to even slightly dissent. I watched other people try to disagree with him and saw them simply worn down. So this will probably be my only post on the matter.
As an Eagles fan we were utterly spoilt by the Fab years, and Dave F played a signficant part in that both in recruiting and on a game day. Losing both in the space of a year was bound to have an effect. I think it's a shame that nothing could be done to keep Dave involved with the BBL team. I've never really been part of the love-fest for Steutal, I'm not sure he's done anything to justify the big job with either Eagles or GB (if he really is their coach - it's unclear), He doesnt really show the ability to change things or recruit properly with Eagles and the buck stops with him.
I do think the two appointments after Fab left have been a bit lazy but after the way Paul Blake has built this franchise from being a bit of a laughing stock in the BBL, I'll give him a pass. I think an immediate change in coach - even if it writes off this season - would be a step in the right direction, although it's absolutely crucial Paul gets it right this time.
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