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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 17:50:06 GMT
No one has touted the famous title winning Sharks from 98/99 when they beat Giants at the buzzer to win the league. Not sure if they won anything else that season but obviously a great team led by Terrell Myers. You mean this IRF, this features the legendary Kevin Cadle and Billy Mim's the Riders coach who won the play offs from eighth. Will give this a watch next few days Thanks for the link I remember someone linking Derby Trailblazers highlights from the past as well. Some of those clips were amazing |
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Post by mac on May 20, 2022 18:24:46 GMT
There is a bunch of them, search Whatsbev (yes really). There's Towers, Leopards, Storm, Tigers. Got me all nostalgic.
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Post by dandayr on May 21, 2022 20:02:09 GMT
I'd rank them in the top 3 sides in the twenty twentys or if want an all time ranking - they should get into a top 50 as to the picks I'd put above them - what year can we go back to? All-time top british league sides or is it a date when the name BBL became used? Top 50 all time? Don't be ridiculous? They've just won the league by 16 points. The biggest margin of ALL TIME Previous record was 10 points They've averaged 20 point margin wins during the league season Only 1 BBL team has ever beaten that ALL TIME Most dominant League victory ever all time Second highest average points margin ever all time And you only put them Top 50? It's Top 3 stats ALL TIME? Top 3 teams in 2020's? - there's only been 3 League winners in 2020's and we are all 3 of them? Have you been smoking something Dandayr? My reply reflects what I think of questions like - is this the greatest ever team, is this the best player ever is this blah blah blah Who cares that this is the biggest margin of all time - remind me how many times did Riders play with at least three starters missing due to covid protocols. Their opponents all suffered more and they all had deeper injury issues. Riders as a club should get a lot of credit for the way they managed their squad through the pandemic and injuries - but you cant ignore the record margin was done in an unusual time. They are a great team. No debate there - but I am old and while I am not a fan of comparing current teams to past teams (in any sport) I do think you need to look at the bigger picture before people come out and say things like team x in 2019 2020 or 2022 is the best ever in british basketball. Simple question - do you think this Riders could hold their own with any of Real Madrid, Macabi Tel Aviv, Barcelona, Zagreb ? Nope - so while they are a great team of our current time - in the history of british basketball, IMHO they are not in the top 5 list or even 10 in my view. There was a time we had clubs that competed with those euro names I mentioned - not played against them, but competed with them. I saw Manchester give some of them a decent game including I thought Madrid, but dont see that mentioned online so will need to search my programs box. I did see them play Zagreb and fairly sure Petrovic played in the game at stretford sports centre. As this page shows, Manchester beat a reasonably well known Greek side then a Spanish side to reach the last 16 and they competed there ok and picked up 2 wins. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%9388_FIBA_Kora%C4%87_CupBritish club sides were competitive at the Philips Invitational world club championship each year - they were not just there to complete the numbers. There is a youtube video of Manchester pushing Macabi all the way in the semi-final one year. Players - our BBL current MVP is a clear and deserved recipient. People will go watch a game cause he is in the Riders team. When I was young Paisley was my local side and they had a game v Palace - we did not go watch just cause it was a team from England, we went cause Alton Byrd was playing. He was the name of the day - and he was a NBA draft to the Celtics but it did not work out which was to the UKs good fortune. I genuinely dont know - any of current Riders picked by a club in NBA draft? I've typed enough - my initial reply could be seen as flippant. Hope you understand now it is cause I found the original question and those of its like just pointless. Same when the NBA fanboys get their knickers in a twist about a goat. MJ was the man of his time. LBJ was the man of his time. |
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Post by SamH on May 21, 2022 21:13:07 GMT
Well, its just a bit of fun dandayr  I know its difficult to compare eras as this is always the problem when people do it for the NBA (although to your final line, I would still rank MJ over LBJ and have several reasons why, but that's for another day!)  I'd like to throw the 1993 Worthing Bears into the mix - they didn't win the cup or trophy but did go 31-2 in the league and won the playoffs at Wembley, part of a 3-peat playoff success. Here's a video of the playoff final from Sky Sports! |
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jumbo
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Post by jumbo on May 21, 2022 23:00:10 GMT
Super hard to compare across eras. But I think this team is probably a top 5 team since the boom went bust. Up there with the clean sweep Eagles teams, the 16/17 Riders team and the Mersey side that had a real bunch of talent.
Bbl pre itv digital was almost certainly a higher standard but where this current riders team stacks up against that competition is impossible to tell. Comparing what happened in Europe also tough as euro ball, particularly the euroleague teams, are absolutely miles ahead of what they were back then.
Slightly off topic but you could make a case that the 3 best players in the world at the minute are European. And only 1 American in the top 5. That was unthinkable 5 years ago never mind 25.
Same with the nba draft thing. Riders haven't had any guys get drafted, but then there's not 10 rounds and 200+ guys getting drafted each year. And that's not a knock on Byrd btw, I was quite young when I saw him play but I know how good he was. But there have been a few guys that have come over that have been around the honourable mention sections of nba mock drafts and playing summer league games that may well have been taken if the set up was how it was back then. Just makes the whole thing so hard.
So basically I don't know. They've been good though. And geno is special.
Other off topic thing, although slightly related...Jonah Mathews, who (never) played for Riders last season is set to sign for Milan. Shame we didn't get to see him suit up in the bbl. Although his replacement was ok
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Post by irf on May 22, 2022 6:55:29 GMT
Top 50 all time? Don't be ridiculous? They've just won the league by 16 points. The biggest margin of ALL TIME Previous record was 10 points They've averaged 20 point margin wins during the league season Only 1 BBL team has ever beaten that ALL TIME Most dominant League victory ever all time Second highest average points margin ever all time And you only put them Top 50? It's Top 3 stats ALL TIME? Top 3 teams in 2020's? - there's only been 3 League winners in 2020's and we are all 3 of them? Have you been smoking something Dandayr? My reply reflects what I think of questions like - is this the greatest ever team, is this the best player ever is this blah blah blah Who cares that this is the biggest margin of all time - remind me how many times did Riders play with at least three starters missing due to covid protocols. Their opponents all suffered more and they all had deeper injury issues. Riders as a club should get a lot of credit for the way they managed their squad through the pandemic and injuries - but you cant ignore the record margin was done in an unusual time. They are a great team. No debate there - but I am old and while I am not a fan of comparing current teams to past teams (in any sport) I do think you need to look at the bigger picture before people come out and say things like team x in 2019 2020 or 2022 is the best ever in british basketball. Simple question - do you think this Riders could hold their own with any of Real Madrid, Macabi Tel Aviv, Barcelona, Zagreb ? Nope - so while they are a great team of our current time - in the history of british basketball, IMHO they are not in the top 5 list or even 10 in my view. There was a time we had clubs that competed with those euro names I mentioned - not played against them, but competed with them. I saw Manchester give some of them a decent game including I thought Madrid, but dont see that mentioned online so will need to search my programs box. I did see them play Zagreb and fairly sure Petrovic played in the game at stretford sports centre. As this page shows, Manchester beat a reasonably well known Greek side then a Spanish side to reach the last 16 and they competed there ok and picked up 2 wins. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987%E2%80%9388_FIBA_Kora%C4%87_CupBritish club sides were competitive at the Philips Invitational world club championship each year - they were not just there to complete the numbers. There is a youtube video of Manchester pushing Macabi all the way in the semi-final one year. Players - our BBL current MVP is a clear and deserved recipient. People will go watch a game cause he is in the Riders team. When I was young Paisley was my local side and they had a game v Palace - we did not go watch just cause it was a team from England, we went cause Alton Byrd was playing. He was the name of the day - and he was a NBA draft to the Celtics but it did not work out which was to the UKs good fortune. I genuinely dont know - any of current Riders picked by a club in NBA draft? I've typed enough - my initial reply could be seen as flippant. Hope you understand now it is cause I found the original question and those of its like just pointless. Same when the NBA fanboys get their knickers in a twist about a goat. MJ was the man of his time. LBJ was the man of his time. I prefer flippant and then backing it up (Which you just did) To smoking something that makes you talk nonsense! |
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Post by colicab85 on May 23, 2022 13:48:15 GMT
That Sharks team from 98/99 would decimate the current Riders team. Myers and Conlan were borderline NBA talents, Cauthorn and Wilbur Johnson were unbelievably solid, Johnson would be the best centre in the league right now by a mile.
And had Matt Gaudio not got injured 11 games in, we wouldn't have lost a single game that year imo. Scants came in and did an incredible job though.
And while "you cant compare eras" apparently, I am doing. Sharks by 30+. Easily.
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Post by SamH on May 23, 2022 13:50:12 GMT
But then presumably you'd also have to put Giants on the same pedestal Colicab? Since if Myers missed that shot, they win the league - so they were neck and neck all the way with them?
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Post by colicab85 on May 23, 2022 13:54:12 GMT
But then presumably you'd also have to put Giants on the same pedestal Colicab? Since if Myers missed that shot, they win the league - so they were neck and neck all the way with them? Absolutely! Dorsey, White, Holley, Perry, that is an insane line up. They got so much better the next season too adding Hairston, Handy and Conlan. I mean, it was like cheating almost. |
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Post by colicab85 on May 23, 2022 13:59:45 GMT
But then presumably you'd also have to put Giants on the same pedestal Colicab? Since if Myers missed that shot, they win the league - so they were neck and neck all the way with them? I think they also lost a PG that season very early on. I want to say Otto Porter but I know that's wrong. I think it was someone Porter. Never saw him play but I gather he was meant to be very good. Who knows what would've happened had he and Gaudio stayed healthy. |
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Post by SamH on May 23, 2022 14:49:31 GMT
Well Otto Porter is a current NBA player so it definitely wasn't that! I can't recall that far back sadly. All I remember is this was the year the Bears were financially stricken, and lost 30 straight games. However in among that, we took the Giants to double overtime and really should have won - it was unbelievable when you considered the gulf in talent. The crowd was cheering at the end as if it was a win because it felt like it and there was a handful of Giant fans there, waving their flag and doing their little chant but you could tell they were embarrassed - it should have been the easiest game of the season for them! So that was a highlight in what was otherwise a terrible season. I think a few fans started up a 'Sheffield!' chant near the end too |
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Post by colicab85 on May 23, 2022 14:53:18 GMT
Well Otto Porter is a current NBA player so it definitely wasn't that! No I know. I wana say the surname was either Porter or Gibson but could be wrong entirely. Wish I could remember! |
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jumbo
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Post by jumbo on May 23, 2022 16:39:15 GMT
I think most people would agree the talent level was higher back then but what I find interesting is that its not like every import came from an elite college or put up crazy numbers. Dont get me wrong, there were some. But there have been some recently. And I know that college careers are not everything, but you'd have thought if there was such a huge disparity in the talent it would be represented that way.
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Post by SamH on May 23, 2022 17:27:54 GMT
I wonder if it was easier to come here 20 odd years ago for the American players - everything has moved on now with technology, perhaps back then it was easier to go to an English speaking country with similar culture to what they were used to. Whereas now its easier to keep in touch with family online and with phone apps, its easier to get translations, many countries have opened up more in terms of embracing foreign cultures and diversity, etc. So perhaps coming to the UK even for a bit less pay, was seen as a more attractive option back then so some better players did come here, whereas now it's more about getting the biggest salary you can find and those equivalent players are elsewhere?
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2d
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Post by 2d on May 23, 2022 17:43:25 GMT
But then presumably you'd also have to put Giants on the same pedestal Colicab? Since if Myers missed that shot, they win the league - so they were neck and neck all the way with them? I think they also lost a PG that season very early on. I want to say Otto Porter but I know that's wrong. I think it was someone Porter. Never saw him play but I gather he was meant to be very good. Who knows what would've happened had he and Gaudio stayed healthy. Porter Roberts? |
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Post by mac on May 23, 2022 17:52:53 GMT
But then presumably you'd also have to put Giants on the same pedestal Colicab? Since if Myers missed that shot, they win the league - so they were neck and neck all the way with them? Absolutely! Dorsey, White, Holley, Perry, that is an insane line up. They got so much better the next season too adding Hairston, Handy and Conlan. I mean, it was like cheating almost. I would hesitate to call it cheating, unsustainable certainly. Just over a season later Giants folded. From 14000 in the MEN to just 200 at times, it was a shocking collapse. Sadly. |
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I know its difficult to compare eras as this is always the problem when people do it for the NBA (although to your final line, I would still rank MJ over LBJ and have several reasons why, but that's for another day!) 
