sm11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 87
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Post by sm11 on May 19, 2022 23:00:58 GMT
I think the reason behind the conference system (that were in the press release) was to create and push rivalry match ups such as Towers/Leopards and Giants/Sharks (which was a big one at that point).
But unofficially i think it was to push the play offs more. They had just had a league title deciding match in 98-99 and wanted to have such a match every year. I miss the conference system big time for this exact reason and would love to see it return.
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Post by SamH on May 19, 2022 23:33:58 GMT
But if it was 4 and 2 matches against own and opposite conference, how did they all finish with 33 games played (12 teams total) in 01/02? Maybe it started that way then changed?
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 7:57:42 GMT
By the way during the conference system of 99-00 to 01-02. Format was 4 against your own conference and 2 against the other conference. Chester were way ahead of everyone that year from start to finish were 3 games ahead of us (Towers) the Southern Conference winners and comfortably beat us in both our games against each other. For me Jets claim to a sweep is 100% legit. And another by the way. The league started in 72-73. There have been 50 editions not 35. BBL started in 1987. According to wiki that's when it became a "fully professional league" If you are going back before that it was NBL and again according to wiki that started in 1960 but became more serious in 1972? The initial post in this thread wanted to compare all time great "BBL teams" i.e. 1987 onwards Heres the wiki link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_League_(England) |
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sm11
Bench Warmer
Posts: 87
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Post by sm11 on May 20, 2022 8:53:18 GMT
01-02 BBL season teams played 32 games, in 99-00 and 01-02 North played 36 and South played 34.
Thats fair enough IRF, but i just dont like how the first 15 seasons get thrown away by the BBL just like how the Premier League throw 104 years of top flight history away on everything they produce. The Premier League tells you that Chelsea have won the league 5 times whilst ignoring there title in 54/55. The BBL are guilty of the same issue. No doubt for legal reasons but still does annoy me. There was an attempt to form a National League in 1960 but wasnt embraced. I read in a basketball book that there was an attempt to set up a National League in 1938, i dont know how true that was.
I just think that the Crystal Palace team of 79-80 should be up there, won all 4 comps, league, play offs, Cup and BIBF, with only 1 defeat which was the first leg of the BIBF Cup Final against Coventry (later Birmingham Bullets). Perhaps Solent of 83-84 ought to be in the rankings some where too. But for me number 1 is Kingston of 90-91 who coincidently didnt sweep domestically that year but did finish a whopping 7th in the Euroleague. We wont see a BBL team ever do that well again.
I know not many people are going to like this one but although the Riders of 21/22 are definately the best of the last 15 years or so. Its hard to put them above anyone before 96-97 which is when FIBA began the process of closing both the Mens and Womens Euroleagues and our clubs have since been left behind. It wasnt just us being left behind, Dutch clubs and Czech clubs etc used to hold there own in Europe just like we did but not so much any more. The London Lions have definitely put us back on the map a bit this season both Mens and Womens and with Riders ultimately beating them as well makes them undoubtedly the best since around 2006.
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Post by SamH on May 20, 2022 8:58:23 GMT
Oh yeah I can't add up! So maybe it was 4 and 2 then, and yes - Derby being by far the worst team that year was in Chester's conference, but other than that it was pretty even. I just think when you have a team finish 3 games above the rest and 2nd place was basically tied by 3 teams, and that same team also won everything else that year - its pretty clear they were runaway best team. If you included the records from the cup, trophy and playoffs they'd be a lot more than 3 wins ahead. Anyway it doesn't really matter, but I do think that jets team has to be considered for best ever!
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 9:10:55 GMT
01-02 BBL season teams played 32 games, in 99-00 and 01-02 North played 36 and South played 34. Thats fair enough IRF, but i just dont like how the first 15 seasons get thrown away by the BBL just like how the Premier League throw 104 years of top flight history away on everything they produce. The Premier League tells you that Chelsea have won the league 5 times whilst ignoring there title in 54/55. The BBL are guilty of the same issue. No doubt for legal reasons but still does annoy me. There was an attempt to form a National League in 1960 but wasnt embraced. I read in a basketball book that there was an attempt to set up a National League in 1938, i dont know how true that was. I just think that the Crystal Palace team of 79-80 should be up there, won all 4 comps, league, play offs, Cup and BIBF, with only 1 defeat which was the first leg of the BIBF Cup Final against Coventry (later Birmingham Bullets). Perhaps Solent of 83-84 ought to be in the rankings some where too. But for me number 1 is Kingston of 90-91 who coincidently didnt sweep domestically that year but did finish a whopping 7th in the Euroleague. We wont see a BBL team ever do that well again. I know not many people are going to like this one but although the Riders of 21/22 are definately the best of the last 15 years or so. Its hard to put them above anyone before 96-97 which is when FIBA began the process of closing both the Mens and Womens Euroleagues and our clubs have since been left behind. It wasnt just us being left behind, Dutch clubs and Czech clubs etc used to hold there own in Europe just like we did but not so much any more. The London Lions have definitely put us back on the map a bit this season both Mens and Womens and with Riders ultimately beating them as well makes them undoubtedly the best since around 2006. I cant argue with you as I havent seen those early teams play I am confident myself this is best Riders squad I've seen as they are deeper than ever Statistically they are up there with the very best in history including the Kingston team you mention who are the only ones to beat this Riders team on some of the all time stats Dan Routledge publishes on twitter Dan doesn't like to compare eras though as he says too much has changed to compare Based on the fact Riders can only beat the current opposition in front of them I think they have to be one of the all time great teams either based on this season's stats Or simply based on winning 10 out of the last 12 leagues and playoffs I doubt any team in any era has done that? It's domination for 6 years of the two most coveted prizes |
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Post by SamH on May 20, 2022 9:17:10 GMT
Sorry if it sounds pedantic but I think you're talking about something different IRF. The question is who is the best team (as in single season team) of all time. You're talking about dynasties - teams that perhaps keep their core or most of it together and have multiple successful seasons. Eagles obviously could be in that conversation too.
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 9:26:09 GMT
Sorry if it sounds pedantic but I think you're talking about something different IRF. The question is who is the best team (as in single season team) of all time. You're talking about dynasties - teams that perhaps keep their core or most of it together and have multiple successful seasons. Eagles obviously could be in that conversation too. Yep Like I say though I consider this to be the deepest Riders squad quality wise with by far the best point guard we've had So based on how successful other Riders teams have been (we've won 4 trebles now) Then I say this season's Riders team have more than earnt the right to be considered up amongst all time great teams in BBL I would have the last Eagles squad that won the slam in that group as well even though I personally believe this Riders team comfortably beats that Eagles team I would call them all time greats as well as they too won the league easily enough and won their games with big points margins most of the time I do think the eras aren't too far apart to be able to compare team quality though Defoe, Fletch, Washington all still playing and comparable then and now Washington vastly improved Defoe obviously declined Fletch probably a lesser player now Back then he significantly stood out But as a pint guard he was only competing against Neil Watson on the clear second best team in the League And Neil couldn't defend well. Let's be honest. |
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 9:27:42 GMT
Here's a question for Eagles fans
Which was the strongest Eagles team that won a slam?
I only saw the last team to do it play?
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Post by massiveridersfan on May 20, 2022 9:37:18 GMT
Sorry if it sounds pedantic but I think you're talking about something different IRF. The question is who is the best team (as in single season team) of all time. You're talking about dynasties - teams that perhaps keep their core or most of it together and have multiple successful seasons. Eagles obviously could be in that conversation too. Yep Like I say though I consider this to be the deepest Riders squad quality wise with by far the best point guard we've had So based on how successful other Riders teams have been (we've won 4 trebles now) Then I say this season's Riders team have more than earnt the right to be considered up amongst all time great teams in BBL I would have the last Eagles squad that won the slam in that group as well even though I personally believe this Riders team comfortably beats that Eagles team I would call them all time greats as well as they too won the league easily enough and won their games with big points margins most of the time I do think the eras aren't too far apart to be able to compare team quality though Defoe, Fletch, Washington all still playing and comparable then and now Washington vastly improved Defoe obviously declined Fletch probably a lesser player now Back then he significantly stood out But he was only competing against Neil Watson on the clear second best team in the League Not sure I'd agree Fletcher has declined. Seen his assist numbers? |
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 9:42:06 GMT
Yep Like I say though I consider this to be the deepest Riders squad quality wise with by far the best point guard we've had So based on how successful other Riders teams have been (we've won 4 trebles now) Then I say this season's Riders team have more than earnt the right to be considered up amongst all time great teams in BBL I would have the last Eagles squad that won the slam in that group as well even though I personally believe this Riders team comfortably beats that Eagles team I would call them all time greats as well as they too won the league easily enough and won their games with big points margins most of the time I do think the eras aren't too far apart to be able to compare team quality though Defoe, Fletch, Washington all still playing and comparable then and now Washington vastly improved Defoe obviously declined Fletch probably a lesser player now Back then he significantly stood out But he was only competing against Neil Watson on the clear second best team in the League Not sure I'd agree Fletcher has declined. Seen his assist numbers? It's possible at this age for his extra experience to make up for his age I agree Regardless though just swap Geno Crandall for Neil Watson and Mo Walker coming off the bench instead of Barry Lamble (let alone the other upgrades we've made) And that last Eagles slam team finds it significantly harder to beat us Our squad now is so superior to the Riders squad back then Don't you agree? Conner was still learning a lot back then as well |
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Post by mac on May 20, 2022 11:17:28 GMT
IRF, love the typo, "pint guard" made me chuckle. I have no problem stating this is the best Riders team I have ever seen, no doubt in my mind. Eagles team in 2005/6 would give them a game. However pluck a Towers, Giants or Sharks team from the 90s and you're in a different ballgame. Yes the league was built on sand then but the on court product was superb. You cannot fairly make a comparison.
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 11:20:01 GMT
IRF, love the typo, "pint guard" made me chuckle. I have no problem stating this is the best Riders team I have ever seen, no doubt in my mind. Eagles team in 2005/6 would give them a game. However pluck a Towers, Giants or Sharks team from the 90s and you're in a different ballgame. Yes the league was built on sand then but the on court product was superb. You cannot fairly make a comparison. Was Fab coach or player in 2006 or neither? |
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Post by mac on May 20, 2022 11:27:04 GMT
Both. In his prime back then, one of the best defenders in the league.
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 12:45:50 GMT
Both. In his prime back then, one of the best defenders in the league. Who was the point guard I assume Fletch came later? |
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Post by mac on May 20, 2022 13:22:22 GMT
Both. In his prime back then, one of the best defenders in the league. Who was the point guard I assume Fletch came later? "The Daddy" TJ Walker. From earlier in this thread "I reckon the Eagles team of 2005/06 would give you a good game. It had Fab, Andrew Sullivan (MVP), Charles Smith, Darius Defoe, TJ Walker, Jeremy Hyatt all in their prime. You know all about the first four. TJ was nicknamed "The Daddy" and was the best Point Guard at that time. Quick feet and even quicker hands. Jeremy was a fast two guard with a deadly pull up three. Watching him do it in a fast break was breathtaking. Andrew Bridge (guard) won a Commonwealth Bronze along with Sulli and Fab. He had a nice shot too. Struggling to remember who else". As good as they were I'm still convinced they would have struggled against a mid 90s Towers, Sharks or Giants. |
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Post by irf on May 20, 2022 13:46:07 GMT
Who was the point guard I assume Fletch came later? "The Daddy" TJ Walker. From earlier in this thread "I reckon the Eagles team of 2005/06 would give you a good game. It had Fab, Andrew Sullivan (MVP), Charles Smith, Darius Defoe, TJ Walker, Jeremy Hyatt all in their prime. You know all about the first four. TJ was nicknamed "The Daddy" and was the best Point Guard at that time. Quick feet and even quicker hands. Jeremy was a fast two guard with a deadly pull up three. Watching him do it in a fast break was breathtaking. Andrew Bridge (guard) won a Commonwealth Bronze along with Sulli and Fab. He had a nice shot too. Struggling to remember who else". As good as they were I'm still convinced they would have struggled against a mid 90s Towers, Sharks or Giants. Sounds good |
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Post by SamH on May 20, 2022 13:48:06 GMT
No one has touted the famous title winning Sharks from 98/99 when they beat Giants at the buzzer to win the league. Not sure if they won anything else that season but obviously a great team led by Terrell Myers.
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Post by mac on May 20, 2022 16:41:20 GMT
No one has touted the famous title winning Sharks from 98/99 when they beat Giants at the buzzer to win the league. Not sure if they won anything else that season but obviously a great team led by Terrell Myers. You mean this IRF, this features the legendary Kevin Cadle and Billy Mim's the Riders coach who won the play offs from eighth. |
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Post by mac on May 20, 2022 16:49:37 GMT
Sharks also won the Trophy, Giants the Cup and Towers took the Play off crown.
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