Where do Riders rank all time?

[dandayr]

I'd rank them in the top 3 sides in the twenty twentys

or if want an all time ranking - they should get into a top 50

as to the picks I'd put above them - what year can we go back to? All-time top british league sides or is it a date when the name BBL became used?

[mac]

Okay, this is easy. Fab, 3 clean sweeps, Rob none. Different era. Don't care what Rob has done, still playing catch-up. He may catch-up, I kind of hope he does because records are meant to be be broken but cannot see it. Kevin Candle, is mostly before my time, but I would say GOAT because without him nothing else happens. Coach, pundit, expert. Didn't see much of him but he left his mark.

[irf]

May 17, 2022 22:53:05 GMT dandayr said:

I'd rank them in the top 3 sides in the twenty twentys

or if want an all time ranking - they should get into a top 50

as to the picks I'd put above them - what year can we go back to? All-time top british league sides or is it a date when the name BBL became used?

Top 50 all time?

Don't be ridiculous?

They've just won the league by 16 points. The biggest margin of ALL TIME

Previous record was 10 points

They've averaged 20 point margin wins during the league season

Only 1 BBL team has ever beaten that ALL TIME

Most dominant League victory ever all time

Second highest average points margin ever all time

And you only put them Top 50?

It's Top 3 stats ALL TIME?



Top 3 teams in 2020's? - there's only been 3 League winners in 2020's and we are all 3 of
them?

Have you been smoking something Dandayr?

[irf]

BBL started 1987

There's been 35 seasons

[mac]

May 18, 2022 7:00:54 GMT irf said:

BBL started 1987

There's been 35 seasons

Yes and in those 35 seasons the Eagles are officially number one. Even if you add in this season. www.bbl.org.uk/bbl-honours-board/

Oh and no one won in 2020, the league was cancelled.

[milehigh]

May 18, 2022 10:10:15 GMT mac said:

Oh and no one won in 2020, the league was cancelled.

Don't tell Glasgow, they think they were Champions :-)

[irf]

May 18, 2022 10:10:15 GMT mac said:

May 18, 2022 7:00:54 GMT irf said:

BBL started 1987

There's been 35 seasons

Yes and in those 35 seasons the Eagles are officially number one. Even if you add in this season. www.bbl.org.uk/bbl-honours-board/

Oh and no one won in 2020, the league was cancelled.

So the Leagues been won 34 times

Riders have won it 6 times in those 34

Many riders fans would say this is our best squad surely?

We've just won the league by the all time record points margin

Weve got the best point guard the league (let alone Riders) has seen for at least a decade who's won every MVP award going

And Dandayr is kind enough to put this Riders squad in Top 50 all time?


Surely an all time great team has to at the very least win a League title just to get in the conversation?

[LTfan]

May 17, 2022 16:55:08 GMT A tall man said:

A lot lower than you think I reckon.

Ultimately we can only judge a team but the year they competed. How many sweeps have been before ? Kingston, Newcastle, Chester. Until the win all 4 I wouldn't put them in that discussion.

Next years riders will be better than this year's though. Realistically they're only 10 deep, thats shallow in Leicester terms, they'll be legit 12 deep next year

Maybe it's just me, but I don't include Chester in the teams to have done the complete sweep. The only time they 'did it' was when the championship (which is generally regarded as the most prestigious of the 4 titles) had a north and south conference, with Chester Jets winning the north and London Towers winning the south. 
Were Chester Jets better than London Towers that season... maybe, maybe not, we'll never know, and that's the point.

For me the only teams to have ever completed the sweep are Newcastle Eagles and Kingston Kings.

[SamH]

Did Chester have a better record than Towers that year? Seems simple enough to determine who was the true number 1?

[LTfan]

May 18, 2022 12:02:02 GMT SamH said:

Did Chester have a better record than Towers that year? Seems simple enough to determine who was the true number 1?

I can't remember the exact north and south conference format, but I don't think it's a simple as you say to conclude who was 'the best' that season.

[SamH]

Why not? Surely whoever won more games can be considered the overall champion? I think maybe teams played other teams in their own conference more often - that might account for the difference you're thinking of, but I don't think it should make that much difference and you can still go on record. The NBA does this, West and East play themselves 4 times and each other only 2 times, but then due to the maths they play a few teams only 3 times! But no one ever gets into whether or not that was fair, maybe team A only had to play the best teams 3 times while Team B had to play the worst teams 3 times and finished up 1 or 2 games back - its just not the done thing!

[LTfan]

May 18, 2022 12:57:36 GMT SamH said:

Why not? Surely whoever won more games can be considered the overall champion? I think maybe teams played other teams in their own conference more often - that might account for the difference you're thinking of, but I don't think it should make that much difference and you can still go on record. The NBA does this, West and East play themselves 4 times and each other only 2 times, but then due to the maths they play a few teams only 3 times! But no one ever gets into whether or not that was fair, maybe team A only had to play the best teams 3 times while Team B had to play the worst teams 3 times and finished up 1 or 2 games back - its just not the done thing!

I respectfully disagree, it is the done thing, in the BBL at least. Every team plays the same number of games against the same teams every season so that's it's fair (apart from in the North/South years).

If the teams in the northern conference only played other teams in the northern conference (or played northern conference more often) to obtain their season win/loss record, and vice versa with the southern conference, you can’t fairly compare the two.

The winning team in the north might have a 100% winning record. The winning team in the south might have a 90% winning record. But that doesn’t mean the team in the north is better than the team in the south. The northern conference might be full of clown teams – I exaggerate, but you get the point.

I know the NBA operates in this way (if you exclude the play-offs, but maybe that’s partly why they have the extensive play offs they do), but I’ve seen various arguments saying it's easier to win the Eastern Conference than it is to win the Western Conference, which is my very point.

So back to the BBL, to then compare the ‘better’ team of a north/south split competition one year to the winner of a league-wide competition another year just doesn’t work for me, there’s far too inconsistencies.

So in those seasons where we had North League Champions and South League Champions, there was no BBL League Champions, just North Champions and South Champions.

[SamH]

Just had a look on Wiki - Jets finished 24-8 while Towers went 21-11. There were 12 teams, so it looks like it was 3 games against each other - making your point largely irrelevant, unless you want to get into who played who at home twice and whether that would account for a 3 game differential! I somehow doubt it. Also of interest, in the playoffs Towers lost to the 21-11 Sharks and Jets beat the 21-11 Bears. So 3 teams all finished with the same record whereas Jets were 3 games better than them all.

I get what you're saying as I never feel it is quite fair in the NBA and I don't see what their obsession is with playing 82 games per team - they did 72 last year and it made no real difference, so why not configure it so the spread of games is more even?

But anyway yeah, I would argue based on the standings, Jets were the best that season.

[LTfan]

May 18, 2022 17:05:16 GMT SamH said:

Just had a look on Wiki - Jets finished 24-8 while Towers went 21-11. There were 12 teams, so it looks like it was 3 games against each other - making your point largely irrelevant, unless you want to get into who played who at home twice and whether that would account for a 3 game differential! I somehow doubt it. Also of interest, in the playoffs Towers lost to the 21-11 Sharks and Jets beat the 21-11 Bears. So 3 teams all finished with the same record whereas Jets were 3 games better than them all.

I get what you're saying as I never feel it is quite fair in the NBA and I don't see what their obsession is with playing 82 games per team - they did 72 last year and it made no real difference, so why not configure it so the spread of games is more even?

But anyway yeah, I would argue based on the standings, Jets were the best that season.

Like I said, I can't remember the exact format of the north/south championship seasons, but if all teams did still play each other equally and Chester had the better record at the end of the season I'd agree you could argue they were the best team that season.

Makes you wonder though, if all teams did play each other equally, like they do now, for what benefit was splitting the league into north and south conferences?!?

[SamH]

Yeah I have no idea why they did it - perhaps to create an extra trophy? Or to resemble the NBA a bit more? It got dropped after a couple of seasons so obviously wasn't deemed to be very good.

[irf]

Even though that Cheshire team didn't actually win the league

I'm happy to rate them in the top 50 all time

[swimmingbadger]

May 19, 2022 10:53:41 GMT LTfan said:

May 18, 2022 17:05:16 GMT SamH said:

Just had a look on Wiki - Jets finished 24-8 while Towers went 21-11. There were 12 teams, so it looks like it was 3 games against each other - making your point largely irrelevant, unless you want to get into who played who at home twice and whether that would account for a 3 game differential! I somehow doubt it. Also of interest, in the playoffs Towers lost to the 21-11 Sharks and Jets beat the 21-11 Bears. So 3 teams all finished with the same record whereas Jets were 3 games better than them all.

I get what you're saying as I never feel it is quite fair in the NBA and I don't see what their obsession is with playing 82 games per team - they did 72 last year and it made no real difference, so why not configure it so the spread of games is more even?

But anyway yeah, I would argue based on the standings, Jets were the best that season.

Like I said, I can't remember the exact format of the north/south championship seasons, but if all teams did still play each other equally and Chester had the better record at the end of the season I'd agree you could argue they were the best team that season.

Makes you wonder though, if all teams did play each other equally, like they do now, for what benefit was splitting the league into north and south conferences?!?

From memory, at least one of the conference seasons had an unequal amount of teams in the two north & south conferences so teams from one played less games in total. You could definitely argue that gave some teams an advantage.

[SamH]

Yes I remember that, think it was the following year though. Although the wiki recap for that season did mention Manchester Giants pulling out after a few games so perhaps it started uneven but with them withdrawing it evened up and I think the games they'd played to that point were wiped from the records.

[irf]

With a conference format like that you can actually understand why people rate winning playoffs more highly than winning the league

[sm11]

By the way during the conference system of 99-00 to 01-02. Format was 4 against your own conference and 2 against the other conference. Chester were way ahead of everyone that year from start to finish were 3 games ahead of us (Towers) the Southern Conference winners and comfortably beat us in both our games against each other. For me Jets claim to a sweep is 100% legit.

And another by the way. The league started in 72-73. There have been 50 editions not 35.