Progress

[irf]

Jul 18, 2024 13:20:33 GMT dandayr said:

Jul 17, 2024 21:48:42 GMT cosbyrider said:

My point is this if it wasn’t for the dinosaurs as Ovio calls them. There is no British Basketball top flight this season. Zero. Zilch. Nothing. That would have been the legacy of 777s involvement without the dinosaurs picking up the pieces

I guess from the positivity level of the comments Ovie has made in that X thread - he has been paid ok for all the broadcast work he did for the British Basketball League and so doesn't have any personal pain from the 777 fallout.
I wonder if he goes and asks his ex-teammates at Lions, or the backroom staff at Lions if they will have such a positive outlook on the 777 impact to the league as he is having.

At the end of the day even the playing staff still owed money by them will have cashed in whilst they were paying

[dexter]

Jul 18, 2024 15:53:59 GMT irf said:

Jul 18, 2024 13:20:33 GMT dandayr said:

I guess from the positivity level of the comments Ovie has made in that X thread - he has been paid ok for all the broadcast work he did for the British Basketball League and so doesn't have any personal pain from the 777 fallout.
I wonder if he goes and asks his ex-teammates at Lions, or the backroom staff at Lions if they will have such a positive outlook on the 777 impact to the league as he is having.

At the end of the day even the playing staff still owed money by them will have cashed in whilst they were paying

Everyone who had any clue what was going on would have been cashing in, but that is not benefitting basketball in the UK long term.

[eillo23]

Would you not say that a lot of the BBL directors were dinosaurs? Seeing them leave is definitely a good thing and I agree with Ovie on that part. I would rather have basketball people involved with the directorship. Which at the time of their appointment, none of them were.

Although I wouldn’t call the current BBL team owners dinosaurs.

[irf]

Jul 18, 2024 16:40:22 GMT eillo23 said:

Would you not say that a lot of the BBL directors were dinosaurs? Seeing them leave is definitely a good thing and I agree with Ovie on that part. I would rather have basketball people involved with the directorship. Which at the time of their appointment, none of them were.

Although I wouldn’t call the current BBL team owners dinosaurs.

Who puts the money in to fund and manage the clubs?

If not the dinosaurs?

[eillo23]

Jul 18, 2024 17:12:06 GMT irf said:

Jul 18, 2024 16:40:22 GMT eillo23 said:

Would you not say that a lot of the BBL directors were dinosaurs? Seeing them leave is definitely a good thing and I agree with Ovie on that part. I would rather have basketball people involved with the directorship. Which at the time of their appointment, none of them were.

Although I wouldn’t call the current BBL team owners dinosaurs.

Who puts the money in to fund and manage the clubs?

If not the dinosaurs?

As I said, I don’t see any of the BBL team owners as dinosaurs..?

Rodney walker, Simon Brown and Charles Lord on the other hand??? Good riddance.

[cosbyrider]

Jul 18, 2024 16:40:22 GMT eillo23 said:

Would you not say that a lot of the BBL directors were dinosaurs? Seeing them leave is definitely a good thing and I agree with Ovie on that part. I would rather have basketball people involved with the directorship. Which at the time of their appointment, none of them were.

Although I wouldn’t call the current BBL team owners dinosaurs.

Don’t think he was talking about them personally. I don’t think his actual comment is particularly wrong in general but the timing right now means he’s very wrong.

It’s a three year interim license to keep a professional league running.

[eagles18000]

as well as being a high level professional sportsman (1 cap for england cricket and i think 2nd all time in wickets for durham) veterans of the north east local league know particularly well how good a basketball player Simon Brown was

[birdorbyrd]

You can see it in two ways - the positive is that the clubs and licensing body have realised that 777 had to be removed for UK basketball to move forward. That is a fact , whatever people like Ovie might think. Removing them is positive for British basketball, and granting a new license quickly means the teams don’t all have to fold…

But… the people who did this deal with 777 and made this terrible error are still in place. No proper tender or oversight has been allowed for the new licence. And there doesn’t appear to be enough teams to make it viable. It feels rushed and amateurish because it is. No branding. No website. No announcement of who’s signed up. No transparency. And a load of broken links when you click through to the “buy season tickets” sections. Ovie has a point in that some of the same people are now involved in something so unprofessional…

[jasong]

Jul 19, 2024 18:21:06 GMT birdorbyrd said:

You can see it in two ways - the positive is that the clubs and licensing body have realised that 777 had to be removed for UK basketball to move forward. That is a fact , whatever people like Ovie might think. Removing them is positive for British basketball, and granting a new license quickly means the teams don’t all have to fold…

But… the people who did this deal with 777 and made this terrible error are still in place. No proper tender or oversight has been allowed for the new licence. And there doesn’t appear to be enough teams to make it viable. It feels rushed and amateurish because it is. No branding. No website. No announcement of who’s signed up. No transparency. And a load of broken links when you click through to the “buy season tickets” sections. Ovie has a point in that some of the same people are now involved in something so unprofessional…

Give them a chance to sort things out? Broken links? I’m guessing there may have to be a new website and Facebook page etc?

[irf]

Jul 19, 2024 18:21:06 GMT birdorbyrd said:

You can see it in two ways - the positive is that the clubs and licensing body have realised that 777 had to be removed for UK basketball to move forward. That is a fact , whatever people like Ovie might think. Removing them is positive for British basketball, and granting a new license quickly means the teams don’t all have to fold…

But… the people who did this deal with 777 and made this terrible error are still in place. No proper tender or oversight has been allowed for the new licence. And there doesn’t appear to be enough teams to make it viable. It feels rushed and amateurish because it is. No branding. No website. No announcement of who’s signed up. No transparency. And a load of broken links when you click through to the “buy season tickets” sections. Ovie has a point in that some of the same people are now involved in something so unprofessional…

When they took over the league they weren't looking like the charlatans we now know they are

They took over loads of bigger sports clubs after they took over BBL

Are they all unprofessional and dinosaurs as well

Or just more victims of con men?

[birdorbyrd]

You’re mixing up two things. I have no opinion on whether they’re dinosaurs

But it is unprofessional to rush out an announcement saying that an undetermined number of clubs, some of which are struggling to remain solvent, have been granted a three-year licence to form a new league, without any proper tender process or oversight, and to make that announcement without even having a website set up, any branding arranged, or a functioning way to sell tickets. Bizarre

As to the second point about victims of con men… these guys conned a lot of people sure. But the amount of red flags that were ignored by BBL people in this case suggests that they weren’t conned. They just chose to look the other way.

[irf]

Jul 19, 2024 20:36:29 GMT birdorbyrd said:

You’re mixing up two things. I have no opinion on whether they’re dinosaurs

But it is unprofessional to rush out an announcement saying that an undetermined number of clubs, some of which are struggling to remain solvent, have been granted a three-year licence to form a new league, without any proper tender process or oversight, and to make that announcement without even having a website set up, any branding arranged, or a functioning way to sell tickets. Bizarre

As to the second point about victims of con men… these guys conned a lot of people sure. But the amount of red flags that were ignored by BBL people in this case suggests that they weren’t conned. They just chose to look the other way.

The red flags got bigger with every club they invested or tried to invest in after they bought Lions and then the BBL

But you think BBL people should have been the only ones to say no?

[cosbyrider]

Disagree it’s unprofessional to make the statement as they have now.

They needed to be some form of hope, some communication that there will be something in place for the winter.

There probably isn’t the time to get together something with full graphics etc right now. But the active basketball fans in the UK needed some nugget of hope

[spacejammer]

Jul 18, 2024 16:40:22 GMT eillo23 said:

Would you not say that a lot of the BBL directors were dinosaurs? Seeing them leave is definitely a good thing and I agree with Ovie on that part. I would rather have basketball people involved with the directorship. Which at the time of their appointment, none of them were.

Although I wouldn’t call the current BBL team owners dinosaurs.

With regards to Ovies comments I understand it and sort of 50% agree with him.
But at the same time 50% disagree with him.

I understand that the league or new league needs to have some ambition and some risk otherwise if you play to safe then we end up having teams forever playing in glorified sports halls.

But at the same time any progress needs to be realistic progress and not unrealistic.
Lets be honest 777 coming in and saying they were going to make the BBL the 2nd best domestic league to the NBA was never going to happen and certainly not any time soon either.

When you look at how clubs have progressed as well like Eagles, Gladiators and Sharks going from sports hall to new arena that didn't happen overnight.
It took years of hard work, planning and dedication for those teams to get where they are.

When they took over London they didn't just try to run before they could walk.
They literally tried to sprint before they could walk and now they have ultimately screwed up.

Going back to Ovies comments I can understand why he believes the league might need a fresh direction and new ideas.
And to be fair I liked the Trophy format last season and also the playoffs.
What I didn't like so much was the pointless All Star game and how one sided the league was.

Problem is if the risk or idea to progress the league isn't mitigated and is going to ultimately result in the league folding.
Then screw the new guys I would rather keep the so called Dinosaurs he is referring who will atleast keep the league going rather then run it into oblivion.

[foxtrot27]

So basically it’s the same clubs that got us into this mess and after the 777 money train dries up, they bolt and set up a new league after obtaining the license without a proper tender process.

One must be mad to think that the result will be different. It smells of amateurism to think you can just launch a new league in 2 months with not even a clear communication strategy for the fans. 7 clubs and none in London and Manchester, a shady new owner in Sheffield, Russell Levenston jumping ship all of a sudden and absolutely no comment from the new league on the the BBL shafting their employees without a pay packet or redundancy in payday. Not even a thank you for your service but please reach out to us with your CV!

Also, I spent some time at the GB v So Sudan game and given all the pre marketing, it was like a high school game in America. If there was 500 people there I’d be surprised. Good game though.

British basketball needs to recognise its closer to collapse than it was before 777. Lipstick on a pig for sure.

And we thé fans suffer. Sorry, progress is not the word I’d use for this thread. Regress more like it.

[spacejammer]

Jul 20, 2024 9:23:36 GMT foxtrot27 said:

So basically it’s the same clubs that got us into this mess and after the 777 money train dries up, they bolt and set up a new league after obtaining the license without a proper tender process.

One must be mad to think that the result will be different. It smells of amateurism to think you can just launch a new league in 2 months with not even a clear communication strategy for the fans. 7 clubs and none in London and Manchester, a shady new owner in Sheffield, Russell Levenston jumping ship all of a sudden and absolutely no comment from the new league on the the BBL shafting their employees without a pay packet or redundancy in payday. Not even a thank you for your service but please reach out to us with your CV!

Also, I spent some time at the GB v So Sudan game and given all the pre marketing, it was like a high school game in America. If there was 500 people there I’d be surprised. Good game though.

British basketball needs to recognise its closer to collapse than it was before 777. Lipstick on a pig for sure.

And we thé fans suffer. Sorry, progress is not the word I’d use for this threat. Regress more like it.

I can't disagree with you on that unfortunately.
The only thing I feel thankful for is atleast we will have some sort of League.

I trust if the right people are incharge then it will run stabley.
But I can see it being more of a safe and let's take few risks sort of league until they feel more confident they can push the boat out and expand it.

Although apart from it being a little more competitive I imagine it will be a regress and a downgrade.
But if that's what it is going to take for the BBL to get back to stability then we have no choice but to accept it.

[dexter]

Jul 20, 2024 8:05:19 GMT spacejammer said:

Jul 18, 2024 16:40:22 GMT eillo23 said:

Would you not say that a lot of the BBL directors were dinosaurs? Seeing them leave is definitely a good thing and I agree with Ovie on that part. I would rather have basketball people involved with the directorship. Which at the time of their appointment, none of them were.

Although I wouldn’t call the current BBL team owners dinosaurs.

With regards to Ovies comments I understand it and sort of 50% agree with him.
But at the same time 50% disagree with him.

I understand that the league or new league needs to have some ambition and some risk otherwise if you play to safe then we end up having teams forever playing in glorified sports halls.

But at the same time any progress needs to be realistic progress and not unrealistic.
Lets be honest 777 coming in and saying they were going to make the BBL the 2nd best domestic league to the NBA was never going to happen and certainly not any time soon either.

When you look at how clubs have progressed as well like Eagles, Gladiators and Sharks going from sports hall to new arena that didn't happen overnight.
It took years of hard work, planning and dedication for those teams to get where they are.

When they took over London they didn't just try to run before they could walk.
They literally tried to sprint before they could walk and now they have ultimately screwed up.

Going back to Ovies comments I can understand why he believes the league might need a fresh direction and new ideas.
And to be fair I liked the Trophy format last season and also the playoffs.
What I didn't like so much was the pointless All Star game and how one sided the league was.

Problem is if the risk or idea to progress the league isn't mitigated and is going to ultimately result in the league folding.
Then screw the new guys I would rather keep the so called Dinosaurs he is referring who will atleast keep the league going rather then run it into oblivion.

I agree with you. I'm 50/50 with Ovie but what I'm not getting from him is this. With a horribly corrupt, criminal and unstable investor like 777 Partners it was always very unlikely other investors were going to get involved. Your main investor needs to be someone who attracts further investment.

[irf]

Jul 20, 2024 9:23:36 GMT foxtrot27 said:

So basically it’s the same clubs that got us into this mess and after the 777 money train dries up, they bolt and set up a new league after obtaining the license without a proper tender process.

One must be mad to think that the result will be different. It smells of amateurism to think you can just launch a new league in 2 months with not even a clear communication strategy for the fans. 7 clubs and none in London and Manchester, a shady new owner in Sheffield, Russell Levenston jumping ship all of a sudden and absolutely no comment from the new league on the the BBL shafting their employees without a pay packet or redundancy in payday. Not even a thank you for your service but please reach out to us with your CV!

Also, I spent some time at the GB v So Sudan game and given all the pre marketing, it was like a high school game in America. If there was 500 people there I’d be surprised. Good game though.

British basketball needs to recognise its closer to collapse than it was before 777. Lipstick on a pig for sure.

And we thé fans suffer. Sorry, progress is not the word I’d use for this threat. Regress more like it.

Is the problem the club owners?

Or the fact we live in GB and basketball simply isn't in our blood to support or watch as a Nation in any numbers

You are kind of hoping for the impossible I think

Would need hundreds of millions of pounds of investment to change the whole nature of British sports fans for basketball to become a bigger draw and even then would still be niche sport over here in terms of spectator sport

You just live in the wrong country for what you want to see I think



Edit the problem is the club owners not bring multi multi millionaires or billionaires I guess to make any big investment you woukd like to see

[foxtrot27]

Jul 20, 2024 9:51:04 GMT irf said:

Jul 20, 2024 9:23:36 GMT foxtrot27 said:

So basically it’s the same clubs that got us into this mess and after the 777 money train dries up, they bolt and set up a new league after obtaining the license without a proper tender process.

One must be mad to think that the result will be different. It smells of amateurism to think you can just launch a new league in 2 months with not even a clear communication strategy for the fans. 7 clubs and none in London and Manchester, a shady new owner in Sheffield, Russell Levenston jumping ship all of a sudden and absolutely no comment from the new league on the the BBL shafting their employees without a pay packet or redundancy in payday. Not even a thank you for your service but please reach out to us with your CV!

Also, I spent some time at the GB v So Sudan game and given all the pre marketing, it was like a high school game in America. If there was 500 people there I’d be surprised. Good game though.

British basketball needs to recognise its closer to collapse than it was before 777. Lipstick on a pig for sure.

And we thé fans suffer. Sorry, progress is not the word I’d use for this threat. Regress more like it.

Is the problem the club owners?

Or the fact we live in GB and basketball simply isn't in our blood to support or watch as a Nation in any numbers

You are kind of hoping for the impossible I think

Would need hundreds of millions of pounds of investment to change the whole nature of British sports fans for basketball to become a bigger draw and even then would still be niche sport over here in terms of spectator sport

You just live in the wrong country for what you want to see I think



Edit the problem is the club owners not bring multi multi millionaires or billionaires I guess to make any big investment you woukd like to see

FIBA, the NBA and Euroleague all want the UK to work. But what’s clear, it’s not going to work with these same muppets in charge. Ovie is right in that regard. This market is too important and the demographics are ripe for a real basketball competition backed by real people. Someone will come forward and I’ve been hearing the former CEO of the Atlanta Hawks and EVP of the NBA Dr Bernie Mullin is backing a new effort. Hope to hear more about that as he’s from Liverpool.

[irf]

Jul 20, 2024 10:09:30 GMT foxtrot27 said:

Jul 20, 2024 9:51:04 GMT irf said:

Is the problem the club owners?

Or the fact we live in GB and basketball simply isn't in our blood to support or watch as a Nation in any numbers

You are kind of hoping for the impossible I think

Would need hundreds of millions of pounds of investment to change the whole nature of British sports fans for basketball to become a bigger draw and even then would still be niche sport over here in terms of spectator sport

You just live in the wrong country for what you want to see I think



Edit the problem is the club owners not bring multi multi millionaires or billionaires I guess to make any big investment you woukd like to see

FIBA, the NBA and Euroleague all want the UK to work. But what’s clear, it’s not going to work with these same muppets in charge. Ovie is right in that regard. This market is too important and the demographics are ripe for a real basketball competition backed by real people. Someone will come forward and I’ve been hearing the former CEO of the Atlanta Hawks and EVP of the NBA Dr Bernie Mullin is backing a new effort. Hope to hear more about that as he’s from Liverpool.

So disrespectful to people who have put their lives and money into UK basketball for decades to just dismiss them and call them muppets like that

And I've got zero affiliation to any of them

It's how society has become now though. Just disregard anything people have done over the years and want more fast