jt
Sixth Man
Posts: 219
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Post by jt on May 9, 2024 13:57:46 GMT
What would be in this for the existing NBL teams or BE? Why would some of the current D1 teams accept a relegation to D2? In many ways I would love this to happen as it would be a more accurate reflection of the state of professional basketball in the UK. However BE are not exactly a model sporting GB are they? I hope for fans of the BBL that there is some kind of contingency plan in place....also for British basketball as well. All I can say if I was a Lions fan right now I wouldn't renew my season ticket just yet especially after this news. Maybe foolish but I've renewed my season ticket for £350 for BBL/Europe, I'll take the risk. Looking at the tickets sold about 30 people have also taken the risk since the email was sent an hour ago. |
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Post by milehigh on May 9, 2024 14:02:05 GMT
I hope you paid with a credit card, to get Section 75 cover, as it's highly unlikely you'll get the product you were sold.
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Post by irf on May 9, 2024 14:14:29 GMT
All I can say if I was a Lions fan right now I wouldn't renew my season ticket just yet especially after this news. Maybe foolish but I've renewed my season ticket for £350 for BBL/Europe, I'll take the risk. Looking at the tickets sold about 30 people have also taken the risk since the email was sent an hour ago. If there is a London franchise next season I would like to think they would honour your ticket The problem is this isn't a grassroots club that is struggling you are supporting with your purchase It's a business that doesn't pay bills on time and doesn't care for those around it So I do think you've been foolish giving them any of your hard earned cash in advance |
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Post by SamH on May 9, 2024 14:44:11 GMT
Yeah why take the risk, its not as if season tickets sell out and you run the risk of not being able to get one later. Were they on at a special early bird price? Unfortunately I've seen this before with the Bears and Nick Nurse - people lost money when he disappeared and mothballed the franchise.
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Post by donthatetheplayer on May 9, 2024 14:49:05 GMT
Meanwhile down at Plymouth there has been a Director change at Patriots over the past 24 hours. BBL COO Andrew Webb has departed and currently there doesn't appear to be anyone running the club or attached to it. PB 2021 Ltd. That in itself is fudicial breach in governance. Will be interesting if this has something to do with retaining a team potentially post 777 demise or something different. Either way its within the 777 sphere so maybe this points at something or did Webb decide to debond himself from something rapidly because he knows somethings cooking? it's all set for the Return of King Vince of London Shire in a brave new Basketball Super League world. Whatever unfolds in the next several weeks, its likely to be of more interest than the actual BBL title race this season. Brace for impact.
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jt
Sixth Man
Posts: 219
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Post by jt on May 9, 2024 15:08:19 GMT
Yeah why take the risk, its not as if season tickets sell out and you run the risk of not being able to get one later. Were they on at a special early bird price? Unfortunately I've seen this before with the Bears and Nick Nurse - people lost money when he disappeared and mothballed the franchise. Last year the renewal price was similar, then the general release was £900+. I'm much happier paying the £350 (on credit card) with some risk, rather than not getting one and the season going ahead and having to spend £30+ a game |
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Post by Stephen Abootman on May 9, 2024 15:39:19 GMT
Lions of London BC. And they could play in ENBL. They don't have to be out of Europe completely. I was thinking of them doing a Paris and simply calling themselves London Basketball Club. Good point about the ENBL, and it would test my theory that most of the 6,000 people in the arena wouldn't care whether they're watching a EuroCup or ENBL game. Or just a BBL game for that matter. They're just there for a night out, so if you do that right you don't need to blow the budget on NBA players. Hasn't this theory pretty much already been tested? How did crowds for Lions' Europe Cup campaign a few years ago compare to EuroCup crowds the past couple of seasons? Therein lies your answer surely? I've not been to any of these games and I've only been half paying attention to the whole thing. But I was under the impression that EuroCup crowds had been significantly bigger. Personally I'd be surprised if there was much interest in London v Keila KK on a Tuesday night. I think we're starting to get a bit too keen on the ENBL around here. It's better than no European basketball at all and I understand why fans of Eagles (and probably Flyers) have enjoyed their clubs' involvement in it this season. But it's a bit Mickey Mouse if we're being honest. Some of the teams in it wouldn't make the BBL playoffs. I really think that clubs with competitive-ish budgets and suitable facilities should be aiming a bit higher. You don't need to spend a fortune on ex-NBA players to be semi-competitive in Europe Cup. |
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Post by irf on May 9, 2024 15:51:16 GMT
Yeah why take the risk, its not as if season tickets sell out and you run the risk of not being able to get one later. Were they on at a special early bird price? Unfortunately I've seen this before with the Bears and Nick Nurse - people lost money when he disappeared and mothballed the franchise. Last year the renewal price was similar, then the general release was £900+. I'm much happier paying the £350 (on credit card) with some risk, rather than not getting one and the season going ahead and having to spend £30+ a game Buying on a credit card helps you for sure |
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Post by dexter on May 9, 2024 15:55:34 GMT
Last year the renewal price was similar, then the general release was £900+. I'm much happier paying the £350 (on credit card) with some risk, rather than not getting one and the season going ahead and having to spend £30+ a game Buying on a credit card helps you for sure Yes it's paid by credit card and it's over £100 so you'll get it all back. |
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Post by SamH on May 9, 2024 16:00:06 GMT
Yeah thats less risk and it is a big saving difference!
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Post by dexter on May 9, 2024 16:22:48 GMT
I was thinking of them doing a Paris and simply calling themselves London Basketball Club. Good point about the ENBL, and it would test my theory that most of the 6,000 people in the arena wouldn't care whether they're watching a EuroCup or ENBL game. Or just a BBL game for that matter. They're just there for a night out, so if you do that right you don't need to blow the budget on NBA players. Hasn't this theory pretty much already been tested? How did crowds for Lions' Europe Cup campaign a few years ago compare to EuroCup crowds the past couple of seasons? Therein lies your answer surely? I've not been to any of these games and I've only been half paying attention to the whole thing. But I was under the impression that EuroCup crowds had been significantly bigger. Personally I'd be surprised if there was much interest in London v Keila KK on a Tuesday night. I think we're starting to get a bit too keen on the ENBL around here. It's better than no European basketball at all and I understand why fans of Eagles (and probably Flyers) have enjoyed their clubs' involvement in it this season. But it's a bit Mickey Mouse if we're being honest. Some of the teams in it wouldn't make the BBL playoffs. I really think that clubs with competitive-ish budgets and suitable facilities should be aiming a bit higher. You don't need to spend a fortune on ex-NBA players to be semi-competitive in Europe Cup. We have no idea what budget Lions of London BC will have never year. If they can afford to play in Europe Cup they should. If not, ENBL is better than nothing. |
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Post by irf on May 9, 2024 16:24:50 GMT
Hasn't this theory pretty much already been tested? How did crowds for Lions' Europe Cup campaign a few years ago compare to EuroCup crowds the past couple of seasons? Therein lies your answer surely? I've not been to any of these games and I've only been half paying attention to the whole thing. But I was under the impression that EuroCup crowds had been significantly bigger. Personally I'd be surprised if there was much interest in London v Keila KK on a Tuesday night. I think we're starting to get a bit too keen on the ENBL around here. It's better than no European basketball at all and I understand why fans of Eagles (and probably Flyers) have enjoyed their clubs' involvement in it this season. But it's a bit Mickey Mouse if we're being honest. Some of the teams in it wouldn't make the BBL playoffs. I really think that clubs with competitive-ish budgets and suitable facilities should be aiming a bit higher. You don't need to spend a fortune on ex-NBA players to be semi-competitive in Europe Cup. We have no idea what budget Lions of London BC will have never year. If they can afford to play in Europe Cup they should. If not, ENBL is better than nothing. I honestly think just having a London team next season will be a good start |
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Post by LTfan on May 9, 2024 17:12:04 GMT
I was thinking of them doing a Paris and simply calling themselves London Basketball Club. Good point about the ENBL, and it would test my theory that most of the 6,000 people in the arena wouldn't care whether they're watching a EuroCup or ENBL game. Or just a BBL game for that matter. They're just there for a night out, so if you do that right you don't need to blow the budget on NBA players. Hasn't this theory pretty much already been tested? How did crowds for Lions' Europe Cup campaign a few years ago compare to EuroCup crowds the past couple of seasons? Therein lies your answer surely? I've not been to any of these games and I've only been half paying attention to the whole thing. But I was under the impression that EuroCup crowds had been significantly bigger. Personally I'd be surprised if there was much interest in London v Keila KK on a Tuesday night. I think we're starting to get a bit too keen on the ENBL around here. It's better than no European basketball at all and I understand why fans of Eagles (and probably Flyers) have enjoyed their clubs' involvement in it this season. But it's a bit Mickey Mouse if we're being honest. Some of the teams in it wouldn't make the BBL playoffs. I really think that clubs with competitive-ish budgets and suitable facilities should be aiming a bit higher. You don't need to spend a fortune on ex-NBA players to be semi-competitive in Europe Cup. I think you’re comparing apples and oranges. Yes, the crowds for London’s Europe Cup games a few years ago were a fraction of the crowds for this seasons EuroCup games. But the crowds for their BBL games a few years ago were a fraction of the crowds for this seasons BBL games too. You’re basically comparing two different London Lions organisations and everything that goes along with them. As IRF has said, I hope London Lions and European basketball survives but I’d just be happy with a London team in the league next season right now. |
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Post by irf on May 9, 2024 17:19:00 GMT
We have no idea what budget Lions of London BC will have never year. If they can afford to play in Europe Cup they should. If not, ENBL is better than nothing. I honestly think just having a London team next season will be a good start I bet Copper Box is owed money right now by the current team |
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Post by Stephen Abootman on May 10, 2024 1:32:03 GMT
I think you’re comparing apples and oranges. Yes, the crowds for London’s Europe Cup games a few years ago were a fraction of the crowds for this seasons EuroCup games. But the crowds for their BBL games a few years ago were a fraction of the crowds for this seasons BBL games too. You’re basically comparing two different London Lions organisations and everything that goes along with them. You're better positioned to judge than I am but I wasn't aware that BBL attendances had increased appreciably since 2021/22. Think I only went to one of Riders' games at the Copper Box this season but I don't remember it being any busier than previous visits. Pretty sure I also went to a game there last season when the crowd was literally one side of the lower tier. So when I see advertised crowds of 6,000 for some of these EuroCup games it has me believing that playing at a better level and in a more glamorous competition does get significantly more people interested. Personally I don't think a normal London-based BBL team signing players no one had previously heard of would get too many fans through the door for midweek ENBL games. |
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Post by LTfan on May 10, 2024 11:18:07 GMT
I think you’re comparing apples and oranges. Yes, the crowds for London’s Europe Cup games a few years ago were a fraction of the crowds for this seasons EuroCup games. But the crowds for their BBL games a few years ago were a fraction of the crowds for this seasons BBL games too. You’re basically comparing two different London Lions organisations and everything that goes along with them. You're better positioned to judge than I am but I wasn't aware that BBL attendances had increased appreciably since 2021/22. Think I only went to one of Riders' games at the Copper Box this season but I don't remember it being any busier than previous visits. Pretty sure I also went to a game there last season when the crowd was literally one side of the lower tier. So when I see advertised crowds of 6,000 for some of these EuroCup games it has me believing that playing at a better level and in a more glamorous competition does get significantly more people interested. Personally I don't think a normal London-based BBL team signing players no one had previously heard of would get too many fans through the door for midweek ENBL games. But if you’re spending a fraction of what the current organisation are spending, not getting too many fans through the door (comparatively) might not be a problem. It might even be a profitable approach. |
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Post by milehigh on May 10, 2024 12:17:59 GMT
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Post by SamH on May 10, 2024 14:53:34 GMT
I'm not sure the penny has quite dropped for everyone just yet though...
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Post by foxtrot27 on May 10, 2024 15:57:34 GMT
I think the penny has dropped a long time ago for those who didn't blindly follow the BS. The decline started a long time ago. The chaos and lack of funding from UK Sport combined with the revolving door at the BBF was enough to scare off the NBA to France. 777 was just one more fiasco that has set the sport back decades. We were supporting a convicted felon and we are surprised at the crimes coming to light now??
Meanwhile, France has taken the lead as the best new market in Europe. We had our chance and bottled it.
With no real UK backing, investment etc, how does the professional game move forward now? How does the national and grassroots programmes move forward?
I believe it was Alton Byrd who described our current state as A MISSED OPPORTUNITY. I'm beginning to believe him now.
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Post by notoriousbigz on May 10, 2024 17:14:10 GMT
I mean, I actually don't take any pleasure in this whatsoever but I've said this has been coming from day one.
The business plan is transparent as anything, and it seems as times gone on its not even a case of solid venture capitalism, because there's no tangible skill or improvement 777 have brought to the table that they haven't wasted millions on. What are they actually good at? We're on secpnd grade regional television channels in the States, woopdeedoo. It would seem now that its just a case of debt loading assets to pay off earlier lenders. Which is tantamount to a Ponzi scheme as IRF has neatly surmised.
Where do we go from here then? Well for me there's two ways - we either get together as a community and make the structure of basketball better for everyone across the board- get rid of the franchise nonsense and actually have promotion and relegation (even with conditions would be better than not right now), which I think is unlikely because there's far too much incompetence and dick measuring around, or they try and stick to the franchise model which has been proven both pre and post 777 to be a failing model and it will eventually collapse.
There's actually chance for a real positive change to come from the seemingly inevitable 777 meltdown, but I have absolutely no faith in the people running the show to do the right thing.
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