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Post by irf on May 8, 2024 11:00:31 GMT
Lets wait and see what happens. From what I have read and from the documents of the new court case... it seems A-Cap are involved ALOT more then anyone realises. Leadenhall claiming that assets they thought they were lending against had already been pledged to Acap? Hence the fraud lawsuit to try and recover their position. And Acap are kind of backing that up in a roundabout way below: ACAP, through a spokesman, called Leadenhall’s claims “baseless,” but did not deny it held the first claim on 777’s assets. Two huge investors. One of which claiming fraud. The other. Who knows where they fit in to it all. Looks like a pretty desperate situation now though for all concerned (Its also being reported that Leadenhall only became aware of what was happening due to an anonymous email tip off) |
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Post by irf on May 8, 2024 11:21:10 GMT
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Post by irf on May 8, 2024 11:28:17 GMT
Acap apparently lent 777 over 400M US dollars against their assets:
(Acap in a bad situation already due to the relationship)
Following the reinsurer’s downgrades, insurance group A-CAP CEO Kenneth King jumped to reassure interested parties that it would be cutting ties with the reinsurer within two months. A-CAP company Atlantic Coast Life Insurance has itself faced a long-term issuer credit rating downgrade (to bbb), with its and Sentinel Security Life Insurance’s credit ratings under negative review.
“We haven’t terminated the contracts and that’s for good reason,” King said of 777 Re in late February on a webinar since shared on Everton business fan blog The Esk. “To shut off the flow of liquidity to our reinsurer would have paralyzed them and essentially created more risk to ACAP.”
Effectively, King said, 777 Re is now being treated by A-CAP as an “unrated reinsurer”. Prior to the former’s rating troubles, A-CAP had lent more than $400 million to 777 Partners and affiliated entities, Semafor has reported citing documents and people familiar to the matter.
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Post by hayesboy on May 8, 2024 13:18:59 GMT
I think someone could step in to support a Manchester team in the NBPC. I believe the Manchester fans would support it. London Lions and Plymouth Patriots would be much harder to save due to costs and venue respectively. An 8 team BBL wouldn't be so bad, especially as it would be losing a team that's too good and a team that's quite bad. I think an 8 team league would be really rough, although a competitive balance would make the product as a whole worthwhile. Perhaps time to merge with the NBL and expand to maybe 12 teams. One thing that's a must is a salary cap/sustainability rules to stop this from happening again. London' run in Europe was fun, but not at this cost. It was always totally unsustainable and the money spent could have done wonders for the sport in this country. What would be in this for the existing NBL teams or BE? Why would some of the current D1 teams accept a relegation to D2? In many ways I would love this to happen as it would be a more accurate reflection of the state of professional basketball in the UK. However BE are not exactly a model sporting GB are they? I hope for fans of the BBL that there is some kind of contingency plan in place....also for British basketball as well. |
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Post by stepback3 on May 8, 2024 18:02:16 GMT
The giants and pats are under league guidance rather than 777 directly.
The leagues survived worse. Atleast we have a number of teams in control of their own facility and those who are main tenant's of others. The league was progressing pre 777 and I do not think needs to fall majorly backwards when the fan finally falls off for 777. Lions, different story however im sure there will be investors waiting to see. The big thing is the level of debt, we all saw their accounts but what has this season done!
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Post by tallerman on May 8, 2024 18:05:34 GMT
To his credit, Dunkster was correct in predicting this so early on. To his discredit, he also spoke a load of rubbish about other things that we’ve since learnt were totally incorrect. It’s probably important not to get too ahead of ourselves… I’ve heard rumours a contingency plan for the league is already in place and ready to be initiated if/when 777 exit. I don’t know the exact details or what it means for Manchester and Plymouth. And London is an entirely separate scenario, although I do know the league want to retain a London-based team and not throw away everything the 777 money has done for basketball in the capital. Now I’m speculating, but the contingency plan could include acquiring the London Lions and bringing them under league control (potentially at the cost of losing Plymouth and/or Manchester) but with an entirely different business model – no more Europe, no more NBA-players, for starters. Equally the league might launch a new London-based team, which looks suspiciously like the London Lions but for legal reasons are an entirely different company (think Plymouth Raiders/Plymouth City Patriots). Just to reiterate, the above is based on both what I know to be true and some speculation on my behalf. Whats the old saying, if you through enough shit at the wall something will stick but your house is still covered in shit. That was dunksters model. Although the rumour that he is prevelant on this board is quite funny, especially when you check the ip addresses of the 2 accounts he had on bev that were the same |
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Post by spacejammer on May 8, 2024 18:06:05 GMT
I think an 8 team league would be really rough, although a competitive balance would make the product as a whole worthwhile. Perhaps time to merge with the NBL and expand to maybe 12 teams. One thing that's a must is a salary cap/sustainability rules to stop this from happening again. London' run in Europe was fun, but not at this cost. It was always totally unsustainable and the money spent could have done wonders for the sport in this country. What would be in this for the existing NBL teams or BE? Why would some of the current D1 teams accept a relegation to D2? In many ways I would love this to happen as it would be a more accurate reflection of the state of professional basketball in the UK. However BE are not exactly a model sporting GB are they? I hope for fans of the BBL that there is some kind of contingency plan in place....also for British basketball as well. I hope so as well since I have already bought my season ticket for next season with the Eagles. To be honest though I think outside of Lions, Patriots and Giants their will still be a league especially for teams like Eagles, Riders, Nix, Gladiators and Sharks as let's be honest if your in a basketball purpose arena it's not like they're going to dissappear. Most likely they will just break off into some sort of new league and re name it something like the Union Jack basketball league. And with that different requirements for entry or competition style. The bigger worry is if your a Lions fans and what will happen with the league itself. Like will we still get the YouTube coverage or the Sky Sports deal? What will happen to the league presenters like Todd Harris, Azania and Josh Bett? Or anyone who works behind the scenes or in a non player role for the league? All I can say if I was a Lions fan right now I wouldn't renew my season ticket just yet especially after this news. |
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Post by foxtrot27 on May 8, 2024 19:19:11 GMT
To his credit, Dunkster was correct in predicting this so early on. To his discredit, he also spoke a load of rubbish about other things that we’ve since learnt were totally incorrect. It’s probably important not to get too ahead of ourselves… I’ve heard rumours a contingency plan for the league is already in place and ready to be initiated if/when 777 exit. I don’t know the exact details or what it means for Manchester and Plymouth. And London is an entirely separate scenario, although I do know the league want to retain a London-based team and not throw away everything the 777 money has done for basketball in the capital. Now I’m speculating, but the contingency plan could include acquiring the London Lions and bringing them under league control (potentially at the cost of losing Plymouth and/or Manchester) but with an entirely different business model – no more Europe, no more NBA-players, for starters. Equally the league might launch a new London-based team, which looks suspiciously like the London Lions but for legal reasons are an entirely different company (think Plymouth Raiders/Plymouth City Patriots). Just to reiterate, the above is based on both what I know to be true and some speculation on my behalf. Whats the old saying, if you through enough shit at the wall something will stick but your house is still covered in shit. That was dunksters model. Although the rumour that he is prevelant on this board is quite funny, especially when you check the ip addresses of the 2 accounts he had on bev that were the same Not sure what model Dunkster had, but seems now he was spot on. Going forward, seems legacy BBL owners who fully supported the 777 plan will find it very difficult to just reset and start again especially as they championed their arrival as a new dawn for basketball in the U.K. They have zero credibility now so how do they think we should trust them now?! |
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Post by spacejammer on May 8, 2024 20:30:20 GMT
I do recall several people calling this an inevitable disaster in waiting pretty much from the start. Acquire asset, leverage debt against said asset, watch it burn, acquire another asset, rinse and repeat. Quite who they think they are trying to buy a Premier league football club god only knows. I can forsee at the final commentators saying something along the lines of. Jeanette-"Drew is that a sea of blue shirts a sign the Cheshire Phoenix army has shown up in force today?." Drew-"No Jeanette that blue is actually an army of angry Everton football fans here to crash the Playoff Finals in protest in 777's shambolic take over attempt." |
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Post by dexter on May 8, 2024 20:54:38 GMT
Just need to keep going for 11 more days so we can enjoy the end of this season.
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Post by dexter on May 9, 2024 6:57:15 GMT
www.bbc.com/sport/articles/c3geyzlrmldoNothing new here but nicely summarised and verified by the BBC. It was also mentioned in the sports news on BBC5 Live this morning, but this story really doesn't lend itself well to a radio sound bite. It's too complicated for that.
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Post by LTfan on May 9, 2024 10:06:49 GMT
The leagues survived worse. Atleast we have a number of teams in control of their own facility and those who are main tenant's of others. The league was progressing pre 777 and I do not think needs to fall majorly backwards when the fan finally falls off for 777. Lions, different story however im sure there will be investors waiting to see. The big thing is the level of debt, we all saw their accounts but what has this season done! I know for a fact that the league wants to retain a London franchise. But it’s important to acknowledge there’s a difference between ‘the London Lions’ and ‘a London basketball franchise’. I’m sure there are investors looking at London Lions with interest, including parties in Europe. There might be an opportunity to purchase a ready-made basketball team with a decent following, built using someone else’s money, at a bargain price. Even the league itself might be interested if the price is right… if done right (no Europe, no NBA players etc.) I could certainly see it being more profitable and valuable to them than the likes of Plymouth City Patriots. But as you’ve said, whether it’s the league themselves or outside investors, the biggest issue is what debt you’d be accepting responsibility for as part of the acquisition. That could be a deal-breaker. As I’ve said before in this thread, the alternative is a new London basketball franchise that looks suspiciously like the London Lions, but for legal reasons isn’t. A new London team… but a lot of the same people involved, and still at the Copper Box. Basically a way of inheriting everything the 777 money has built, without inheriting the 777 debt. Again, unless we see a really wealthy investor, the sensible thing would be to just build a solid BBL team – forget Europe for now. I’m not saying it’s likely, but equally I wouldn’t totally rule out the return of Vince Macaulay (with his bags of money from 777) and a new London team. Or maybe we lose London from the professional basketball scene entirely. But that would be a real shame, especially after the last few years. |
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Post by dexter on May 9, 2024 10:38:10 GMT
The leagues survived worse. Atleast we have a number of teams in control of their own facility and those who are main tenant's of others. The league was progressing pre 777 and I do not think needs to fall majorly backwards when the fan finally falls off for 777. Lions, different story however im sure there will be investors waiting to see. The big thing is the level of debt, we all saw their accounts but what has this season done! I know for a fact that the league wants to retain a London franchise. But it’s important to acknowledge there’s a difference between ‘the London Lions’ and ‘a London basketball franchise’. I’m sure there are investors looking at London Lions with interest, including parties in Europe. There might be an opportunity to purchase a ready-made basketball team with a decent following, built using someone else’s money, at a bargain price. Even the league itself might be interested if the price is right… if done right (no Europe, no NBA players etc.) I could certainly see it being more profitable and valuable to them than the likes of Plymouth City Patriots. But as you’ve said, whether it’s the league themselves or outside investors, the biggest issue is what debt you’d be accepting responsibility for as part of the acquisition. That could be a deal-breaker. As I’ve said before in this thread, the alternative is a new London basketball franchise that looks suspiciously like the London Lions, but for legal reasons isn’t. A new London team… but a lot of the same people involved, and still at the Copper Box. Basically a way of inheriting everything the 777 money has built, without inheriting the 777 debt. Again, unless we see a really wealthy investor, the sensible thing would be to just build a solid BBL team – forget Europe for now. I’m not saying it’s likely, but equally I wouldn’t totally rule out the return of Vince Macaulay (with his bags of money from 777) and a new London team. Or maybe we lose London from the professional basketball scene entirely. But that would be a real shame, especially after the last few years. Lions of London BC. And they could play in ENBL. They don't have to be out of Europe completely. |
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Post by baldereagle on May 9, 2024 10:40:46 GMT
We can at least be thankful for the free live YouTube coverage of each match that 777 provided. Mind you, 777 missed a trick there, because I would have happily paid say £5/match to watch it, even with cheesy commentators (Dan excepted)
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Post by dexter on May 9, 2024 10:55:06 GMT
We can at least be thankful for the free live YouTube coverage of each match that 777 provided. Mind you, 777 missed a trick there, because I would have happily paid say £5/match to watch it, even with cheesy commentators (Dan excepted) The idea was to grow the audience but it hasn't happened. There are still only about 6k people watching a game on YouTube for free. It's great for us but not good for the people funding it. |
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Post by LTfan on May 9, 2024 11:24:36 GMT
We can at least be thankful for the free live YouTube coverage of each match that 777 provided. Mind you, 777 missed a trick there, because I would have happily paid say £5/match to watch it, even with cheesy commentators (Dan excepted) Live streaming every game on YouTube wasn't a 777 thing, it existed a few seasons before they arrived. What 777 did do however was significantly increase the production quality. But unfortunately that hasn't really increased the audience, at least not enough to justify the money being spend to produce the coverage. There's no reason live streaming every game on YouTube can't continue even without the 777 money, just don't expect it to be of the same quality... it might even need to go back to the single automated camera unfortunately. Having said that, I'd take that over no coverage at all. |
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Post by LTfan on May 9, 2024 11:29:42 GMT
I know for a fact that the league wants to retain a London franchise. But it’s important to acknowledge there’s a difference between ‘the London Lions’ and ‘a London basketball franchise’. I’m sure there are investors looking at London Lions with interest, including parties in Europe. There might be an opportunity to purchase a ready-made basketball team with a decent following, built using someone else’s money, at a bargain price. Even the league itself might be interested if the price is right… if done right (no Europe, no NBA players etc.) I could certainly see it being more profitable and valuable to them than the likes of Plymouth City Patriots. But as you’ve said, whether it’s the league themselves or outside investors, the biggest issue is what debt you’d be accepting responsibility for as part of the acquisition. That could be a deal-breaker. As I’ve said before in this thread, the alternative is a new London basketball franchise that looks suspiciously like the London Lions, but for legal reasons isn’t. A new London team… but a lot of the same people involved, and still at the Copper Box. Basically a way of inheriting everything the 777 money has built, without inheriting the 777 debt. Again, unless we see a really wealthy investor, the sensible thing would be to just build a solid BBL team – forget Europe for now. I’m not saying it’s likely, but equally I wouldn’t totally rule out the return of Vince Macaulay (with his bags of money from 777) and a new London team. Or maybe we lose London from the professional basketball scene entirely. But that would be a real shame, especially after the last few years. Lions of London BC. And they could play in ENBL. They don't have to be out of Europe completely. I was thinking of them doing a Paris and simply calling themselves London Basketball Club. Good point about the ENBL, and it would test my theory that most of the 6,000 people in the arena wouldn't care whether they're watching a EuroCup or ENBL game. Or just a BBL game for that matter. They're just there for a night out, so if you do that right you don't need to blow the budget on NBA players. But first things first, there needs to be a new owner of the London Lions or a new London basketball team first. |
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Post by dandayr on May 9, 2024 11:55:55 GMT
genuine question to those talking about how the lge could look at a different London franchise if 777 collapsed and Lions collapse with it - surely if a 777 collapse caused Lions to collapse, it would also risk the league to collapse given the largest shareholder in the league is dependent on 777 for his personal income and wealth?
Plus 777 holds an active charge over the company - so would that not get called in if 777 was to collapse or go into chapter 11?
Or can the league continue and the two things have no impact to its own going concern status?
From the companies house page for the Basketball League
1 active person with significant control / 0 active statements
Mr Joshua Craig Wander ACTIVE
Correspondence address
251 Little Falls Drive, Wilmington, De, United States, 19808
Notified on
16 December 2021
Date of birth
August 1981
Nationality
American
Country of residence
United States
Nature of control
Ownership of shares – More than 50% but less than 75%
1 charge registered
1 outstanding, 0 satisfied, 0 part satisfied
Charge code 0199 8309 0001
Satisfy charge0199 8309 0001 on the Companies House WebFiling service
Created
4 January 2024
Delivered
5 January 2024
Status
Outstanding
Persons entitled
777 Partners Llc
Brief description
See clause 3.4 of the debenture, which creates a fixed…
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Post by LTfan on May 9, 2024 12:09:08 GMT
genuine question to those talking about how the lge could look at a different London franchise if 777 collapsed and Lions collapse with it - surely if a 777 collapse caused Lions to collapse, it would also risk the league to collapse given the largest shareholder in the league is dependent on 777 for his personal income and wealth? Plus 777 holds an active charge over the company - so would that not get called in if 777 was to collapse or go into chapter 11? Or can the league continue and the two things have no impact to its own going concern status? I’ve heard there’s a contingency plan ready to be implemented for the league… although I don’t know if that involves new investors replacing 777 as stakeholders or new investors establishing a replacement league. But it's ready to go, should it be needed. As for London, that's just speculation on my behalf, although I do know the new investors/league want to retain a London franchise if possible. |
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Post by dexter on May 9, 2024 13:11:07 GMT
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