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Post by johnmc on Mar 28, 2023 9:47:52 GMT
Interesting release from the League this morning, all but confirming that they're effectively running the Giants this season and going public seeking investment in the club:
Feels a strange release to put out if this isn't already in train IMO. This just isn't how business deals operate in the real world - especially when everyone effectively knows this 'blue chip' franchise is available in a growing sporting league.
Feels exciting for the Giants and for the League.
Have said before if the BBL can't secure investment in the Giants franchise, with its backstory, access to a good facility and a hotbed of sports fandom, they may as well as retire.
Gonna be another fun off-season!
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Post by D44 on Mar 28, 2023 10:35:35 GMT
Summed it up pretty well.
I'm not sure if it's exciting or tragic though. No Giants next year if a buyer isn't found? How long will the league (777) continue to foot the bill. How many of their good players will look elsewhere for a club if there's no guarantees of continuing next year (like Jamell did last season)
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Post by johnmc on Mar 28, 2023 11:28:41 GMT
Summed it up pretty well. I'm not sure if it's exciting or tragic though. No Giants next year if a buyer isn't found? How long will the league (777) continue to foot the bill. How many of their good players will look elsewhere for a club if there's no guarantees of continuing next year (like Jamell did last season) My interpretation of it is that the League effectively owns the club and is safeguarding it so an investor can be found. And some of the ‘active’ language - plus the post Trophy timing - suggests it’s probably in train. Would be odd if Aaron Radin to go public like this if it wasn’t likely - feels like an odd way to stake a reputation. Mark Woods reporting that they have stripped Jamie Edwards of the franchise and turned down a bid with Vince as a minority owner suggests they have live interest from better options too. I may be wrong and this may be ‘cope’! |
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Post by D44 on Mar 28, 2023 12:14:31 GMT
Summed it up pretty well. I'm not sure if it's exciting or tragic though. No Giants next year if a buyer isn't found? How long will the league (777) continue to foot the bill. How many of their good players will look elsewhere for a club if there's no guarantees of continuing next year (like Jamell did last season) My interpretation of it is that the League effectively owns the club and is safeguarding it so an investor can be found. And some of the ‘active’ language - plus the post Trophy timing - suggests it’s probably in train. Would be odd if Aaron Radin to go public like this if it wasn’t likely - feels like an odd way to stake a reputation. Mark Woods reporting that they have stripped Jamie Edwards of the franchise and turned down a bid with Vince as a minority owner suggests they have live interest from better options too. I may be wrong and this may be ‘cope’! Interesting. I didn't know Vince (and the Turks) had actually bid. I know it was rumoured Ads on the BTR Pod said as much. Well done 777 and Aaron Radin if they prevented the (alleged) Turkish group that destroyed Raiders from becoming involved. |
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Post by donthatetheplayer on Mar 28, 2023 12:22:30 GMT
V interesting. There have been rumours of the former Turkish investor who brought down Raiders still sniffing around the BBL. The BBL would suffer a huge credibility problem if they allow failed former owners back. What sort of precedent would that set? Former London City Royals John Sawyer given another London franchise? Scorchers/Heat? If Giants are up for sale then one assumes the Plymouth team will be also. After all, 777 are spending big bucks propping up a league they effectively own and run 30% of the clubs. Perhaps Lions in the not too distant will be put up for sale? Is this the plan for 777 to step back to quickly realise their investment? Will investors coming to Manchester or anywhere else want the league owner to have the best team? The banking environment is heading for a global crisis so perhaps it's a good time for an investment capital business using other peoples cash to start lining up their chips, but there are so many questions around the BBL governance now.
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Post by LTfan on Mar 28, 2023 12:38:01 GMT
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Post by LTfan on Mar 28, 2023 12:53:03 GMT
V interesting. There have been rumours of the former Turkish investor who brought down Raiders still sniffing around the BBL. The BBL would suffer a huge credibility problem if they allow failed former owners back. What sort of precedent would that set? Former London City Royals John Sawyer given another London franchise? Scorchers/Heat? If Giants are up for sale then one assumes the Plymouth team will be also. After all, 777 are spending big bucks propping up a league they effectively own and run 30% of the clubs. Perhaps Lions in the not too distant will be put up for sale? Is this the plan for 777 to step back to quickly realise their investment? Will investors coming to Manchester or anywhere else want the league owner to have the best team? The banking environment is heading for a global crisis so perhaps it's a good time for an investment capital business using other peoples cash to start lining up their chips, but there are so many questions around the BBL governance now. I suspect 777 don't consider London Lions in the same way as Manchester Giants and Plymouth City Patriots. 777 have said repeatedly they don't operate like most other investments firms. The don't look to buy cheap and sell high, they're interested in long term investments they can retain and profit from perpetually. That could all just be talk of course, but their portfolio would suggest that is indeed their strategy. So why do I suspect they consider London different to Manchester and Plymouth? First, they acquired London Lions first, suggesting they saw a long term investment they could profit from perpetually. Only after that did they acquire a 50% share in the BBL, stating the London Lions could only be as profitable as the BBL allowed them to be. Second, they essentially inherited the Manchester Giants and Plymouth City Patriots as part of their BBL acquisition. Funding the Manchester Giants and Plymouth City Patriots was necessary for the good of their investment in the BBL (and in turn their investment in the London Lions), but presumably not part of their long term plan. So, as far as I see it, 777 have 2 long term interests - the London Lions and the BBL. |
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Post by johnmc on Mar 28, 2023 13:13:33 GMT
Agree with LTFan on all this - 777 have identified a 'distressed asset' in the BBL, bought low and are already putting in the scaffolding to realise the potential of both the league and the club they own.
For them to get the best out of it they don't just need the Lions to succeed in Europe, they need a competitive product in the BBL too. And that means they need other clubs who can match the Lions on and off the court. They've lucked into a massive investment from a smart customer in the Glasgow region, so that's a good start.
There are a bunch of other clubs looking to raise their ceiling with infrastructure investment - Sheffield, Bristol, Leicester, Newcastle. Also good news.
They have a couple of clubs strangled by their facilities and smaller markets - Surrey and Cheshire.
And then you have two other 'game changer' options - new franchises, or seeking a better quality of owner for the two clubs you've inherited.
Obviously the latter is a much easier route to market, and easier for the BBL and 777 to control.
From that standpoint, Manchester also makes more sense to market than Plymouth.
We all know the heritage of the Plymouth franchise, but Manchester is a globally recognisable sports city, playing in one of the best facilities in the country and with local infrastructure to support European basketball in the near term. As an 'off the shelf' proposition for a sports investment firm or high net-worth individual, it's ready to go - and that explains a lot to me of both their cashflow investment in the club at a level to bring in high-quality players, and the decision to draw back from 'new' clubs in the immediate term.
In this context, it also makes sense that there was no 'white smoke' around the Vince purchase, Turks or no Turks. Obviously the league is better off without them, but if the BBL has longer-term ambition it also surely wants to move beyond the type of set up Vince ran in London (effectively a deluxe small business) and which they saw up close. In the meantime he's a solid custodian for the BBL, who is known and respected.
This announcement makes a lot of sense of a lot of the rumours and odder comments we've seen this season IMO.
Could also see this being an interesting investment for an NBA player - links to huge soccer clubs in a growing 'global' city, and in a league on an upward trajectory. The £10-20m outlay would be chump change for someone like Allen Iverson or KD. Anyone know if any hoopers are City or United fans?!
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Post by dexter on Mar 28, 2023 16:32:57 GMT
If KD invests in Giants it becomes instantly interesting to every NBA fan in the UK, and they gain thousands of new fans overnight.
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Post by spacejammer on Mar 28, 2023 19:03:41 GMT
Well after the skepticism and hate towards 777 it looks like for once this board seems to be actually supporting them for a change.
To be honest this move could be viewed as Giants looking to bring in more money.
Or their are issues behind the scenes which like BBL teams in the past could doom a franchise.
Which I feel would be in line with 777 as I imagine they would welcome another big money investor to the party.
Especially if their plan of growing the league was to work out then they need a financial rival in order to keep the league interesting.
And I mean outside of London when you look at Manchester as a city and for its sporting culture it would make sense to try and replicate a London project there as well.
After all the city has hosting major sporting events like the Commonwealth games in the past, NBA friendlies and this summer the national football side is hosting North Macedonia at Old Trafford.
Perhaps if this was to happen then maybe 777 plan of bringing up the rest of the league off the back of London might actually work.
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Post by LTfan on Mar 29, 2023 8:46:31 GMT
If KD invests in Giants it becomes instantly interesting to every NBA fan in the UK, and they gain thousands of new fans overnight. I agree entirely, easier said than done though. Lebron James acquired a 2% share of Liverpool FC for £4.7M... if the BBL can tempt any major NBA name (past or present) with 50% for even half of that then they'd be onto a winner. As you're alluding too, it would be as much about the branding as the money they'd bring. Or why limit it to basketball names... look at what Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney have done for Wrexham FC. Are there any Hollywood names who are big basketball fans and might fancy part-owning a British basketball team for a comparatively small amount of their money? I know I'm partly dreaming, but it's an avenue that might at least be worth exploring a little. |
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Post by LTfan on Mar 29, 2023 8:49:43 GMT
Well after the skepticism and hate towards 777 it looks like for once this board seems to be actually supporting them for a change. To be honest this move could be viewed as Giants looking to bring in more money. Or their are issues behind the scenes which like BBL teams in the past could doom a franchise. Which I feel would be in line with 777 as I imagine they would welcome another big money investor to the party. Especially if their plan of growing the league was to work out then they need a financial rival in order to keep the league interesting. And I mean outside of London when you look at Manchester as a city and for its sporting culture it would make sense to try and replicate a London project there as well. After all the city has hosting major sporting events like the Commonwealth games in the past, NBA friendlies and this summer the national football side is hosting North Macedonia at Old Trafford. Perhaps if this was to happen then maybe 777 plan of bringing up the rest of the league off the back of London might actually work. I was never one of those criticising 777, but assuming they don't disappear tomorrow it's difficult to argue they haven't done a lot of good for the BBL in a relatively short period of time. I'll concede there might be a difference between 'the BBL' and 'British Basketball' though. But 777 are a business, and their investment is primarily the BBL. |
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Post by mac on Apr 2, 2023 12:58:38 GMT
It reads more like an advert for investors to me, no bad thing IMO. I don't know how big a kids program they have but are they trying to take credit for the Magic/Mystic's program? One thing they have done well is improve the quality of the online offering. Games on YouTube get 2.5k to 7.5k views. Speaking of which, time for me to login.
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Post by tallerman on Apr 2, 2023 19:33:59 GMT
Part of ne wonders if they already have a buyers and this article is a false post so they can sell it in a month or so
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Post by D44 on Apr 5, 2023 1:41:40 GMT
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Post by spacejammer on Apr 5, 2023 6:47:01 GMT
Oh dear, this is not good news. I hope the Giants are able to get out of this and we don't lost another team to poor leadership decisions. I was worried about Giants afew seasons ago back when they were at the bottom and playing in probably one of the worst venues in the league. It would be heartbreaking to lose them now. |
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Post by LTfan on Apr 5, 2023 8:25:51 GMT
Oh dear, this is not good news. I hope the Giants are able to get out of this and we don't lost another team to poor leadership decisions. I was worried about Giants afew seasons ago back when they were at the bottom and playing in probably one of the worst venues in the league. It would be heartbreaking to lose them now. If the rumours of the BBL declining a joint offer from the Turks & Vince are true that would suggest there are already other investors interested. Otherwise why would you decline an offer from even a dubious investor… it’s not like they can make things any worse. That’s my hope anyway. |
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Post by baldeagle on Apr 5, 2023 9:07:40 GMT
Don’t suppose the BBL will impose any points penalty on the franchise as a consequence of its administration………….but if not what’s the incentive on other franchises not to go for broke in an unsustainable way? We’ve been here before………
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Post by johnmc on Apr 5, 2023 10:43:05 GMT
Oh dear, this is not good news. I hope the Giants are able to get out of this and we don't lost another team to poor leadership decisions. I was worried about Giants afew seasons ago back when they were at the bottom and playing in probably one of the worst venues in the league. It would be heartbreaking to lose them now. I read this completely the opposite way! It's all good news... 1. Jamie Edwards is officially gone 2. The BBL have done their due diligence on the 'Vince Consortium' properly and want no part of it 3. In the meantime they aren't going to let the club go properly bust 4. They think they have a realistic chance of securing investment, and see this step as the best means of realising it. It is interesting to me that they've chosen to pre-pack it. Suggests there is interest, but that investors want the club released of its liabilities and debt obligations - which this effectively does. It also means Jamie won't be able to profit from his mismanagement, which is also a good thing. Glad the MEN have seen a story and dug into it - makes the picture a lot clearer. |
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Post by LTfan on Apr 5, 2023 11:23:05 GMT
Don’t suppose the BBL will impose any points penalty on the franchise as a consequence of its administration………….but if not what’s the incentive on other franchises not to go for broke in an unsustainable way? We’ve been here before……… That's a difficult one. You don't want to discourage franchises from taking any risks in the future. That could result in a very stagnant league that never moves forward. |
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