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Post by milehigh on Sept 24, 2022 23:04:47 GMT
A thread to discuss the current seasons WBBL.
There are wins for Caledonia, Cardiff, Leicester & London in the first set of games.
London winning by what is probably a league record 91 points!
The total "oficial" attendance for the four games today was 345, with two games having 50 or less spectators.
With such low attendedance figures, you have to wonder what value & return on investment the league and clubs are giving their comercial sponsors.
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Post by tony on Sept 25, 2022 3:29:44 GMT
Where do you find attendance figures?
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Post by milehigh on Sept 25, 2022 6:06:57 GMT
They are quoted on the top line of the live stats page fibalivestats.dcd.shared.geniussports.com/u/WBBL/2111144/It's on the first line of text below the large score line. I'm struggling to work out how the league is viable with such low attendances.
An attendance of just 50 is, almost certainly, just friends and families of the participants, so has zero value for a comercial sponsor.
I've officiated in kids cricket matches with much higher crowds, and that is at a recreational level, not something claiming to be elite level sport.
It is difficult to see how there is any value for a comercial sponsor becoming involved.
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Post by dexter on Sept 25, 2022 6:52:40 GMT
There are a few women's sports that attract crowds but even for those that don't sponsoring women's sport is seen as something positive for society. The sponsor can put it on their website. They might not even consider that there could be a hundred spectators watching. It's similar to supporting a charity. I don't expect there's much money involved. Companies have a budget for this kind of thing.
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Post by LTfan on Sept 25, 2022 7:32:20 GMT
They are quoted on the top line of the live stats page fibalivestats.dcd.shared.geniussports.com/u/WBBL/2111144/It's on the first line of text below the large score line. I'm struggling to work out how the league is viable with such low attendances.
An attendance of just 50 is, almost certainly, just friends and families of the participants, so has zero value for a comercial sponsor.
I've officiated in kids cricket matches with much higher crowds, and that is at a recreational level, not something claiming to be elite level sport.
It is difficult to see how there is any value for a comercial sponsor becoming involved.
I’m not saying the WBBL doesn’t have worryingly low attendances, but the attendance numbers quoted on the live stats page are often wildly inaccurate. |
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Post by milehigh on Sept 25, 2022 7:47:23 GMT
If the figures quoted are deliberately inaccurate, it raises questions about the accounting practices at the club, and are they actually paying the correct amount of Income tax and VAT etc.
There are too many cases of professional sports teams not paying their taxes correctly. Indeed there are two Premiership rugby sides that HMRC are currently taking action against for many millions of unpaid tax.
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Post by tallerman on Sept 25, 2022 8:09:19 GMT
Live stats attendance figures are always wrong but i reckon milehighs numbers are fairly accurate.
Everything thats said about commercial viability is true but would also be true for bbl attendances. Unless its in the multiple thousands there isn't a reward for sponsorship, especially long established ones
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dandayr
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Post by dandayr on Sept 25, 2022 9:04:58 GMT
that livestats link I don't seem to be able to get to the Gladiators stats from Friday - what does it say the crowd was?
Always had impression those attendance numbers in livestats was just a random number someone on the table entered cause the system forced them to put something in.
watching the start of the stream on Friday night - they kept their word that looking to treat the women and men equally with the intros using the smoke machines and similar music to the men.
Hard to tell the crowd, but looked like there was over 100 in the arena tier seats opposite the camera, there were 15 to 20 sitting at the end lines and then there was the on the floor, on side the camera was on, the folk with tables like they have at emirates for BBL and that looked from the brief glimpses to be full the full length of the arena court. So be surprised if they did not break the 200 mark with ease.
Its a starting point for them, different level from the BBL crowds, but certainly a lot more than the if just family 50 at WBBL games number and something for them to build on now they are going to be a west based team instead of east based.
Was good to see they used the venue Arena and not the sports hall - means you have a nice markings clean floor of just the basketball court. Not something that could be said when they were playing games at Pleasance where at times it looked like the London underground map, or even the games at Crags or lagoon sports hall where there were multiple lines on show.
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Post by milehigh on Sept 25, 2022 9:18:32 GMT
The figures were, from memory
Gladiators 150
Leicester 105
Manchester 40
Oakland 50
The lower two figures are very unlikely to be anything more than family and friends, as I said earlier, I've umpired age group cricket games with larger attendances.
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Post by dexter on Sept 25, 2022 15:34:45 GMT
I was enjoying London Lions vs Sevenoaks Suns until the stream went down.
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Post by SamH on Sept 26, 2022 13:14:16 GMT
I think its as Dexter said, companies can get some good PR and image out of it even though not many people actually watch the sport. We dont know how much they're paying either, might not be all that much. Sometimes you see this with junior sports teams too, they'll get a kit sponsor from a local business even though its really just going to be parents watching the team play. Perhaps it is just good for their image rather than in terms of brand exposure volume.
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Post by LTfan on Sept 27, 2022 11:12:57 GMT
I was enjoying London Lions vs Sevenoaks Suns until the stream went down. Despite losing it was great to see Sevenoaks being so competitive against London (72-83). I suspect London could go unbeaten again this season, but at least there's one team who can still compete against them! 114-23 against Oakland isn't doing anyone any favours. Sevenoaks always punch well above their weight (in terms of size of organisation, money, etc.), I just wish they actually played in Sevenoaks... or in the same county, or within an hours car drive of it! |
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Post by dexter on Sept 27, 2022 11:51:53 GMT
I was enjoying London Lions vs Sevenoaks Suns until the stream went down. Despite losing it was great to see Sevenoaks being so competitive against London (72-83). I suspect London could go unbeaten again this season, but at least there's one team who can still compete against them! 114-23 against Oakland isn't doing anyone any favours. Sevenoaks always punch well above their weight (in terms of size of organisation, money, etc.), I just wish they actually played in Sevenoaks... or in the same county, or within an hours car drive of it! Yes that is unfortunate. The one women’s team that really could attract a fan base is playing nowhere near its home town. |
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Post by LTfan on Sept 27, 2022 14:53:03 GMT
Despite losing it was great to see Sevenoaks being so competitive against London (72-83). I suspect London could go unbeaten again this season, but at least there's one team who can still compete against them! 114-23 against Oakland isn't doing anyone any favours. Sevenoaks always punch well above their weight (in terms of size of organisation, money, etc.), I just wish they actually played in Sevenoaks... or in the same county, or within an hours car drive of it! Yes that is unfortunate. The one women’s team that really could attract a fan base is playing nowhere near its home town. I’ve never found a definitive answer as to why Sevenoaks Suns moved 50 miles away from Sevenoaks. Did the WBBL introduce minimum requirements for venues, forcing them out of their Sevenoaks venue (which admittedly was a leisure centre attached to a private school)? I know they had plans for their own community arena in nearby Swanley, but those plans fell apart during the pandemic according to the limited info available via their submissions to Companies House. |
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Post by milehigh on Oct 9, 2022 19:58:05 GMT
Interesting to see that the Durham v Caledonia game due to be played today has been called off. Durham are yet to play a game this season. Could this be indicitive of significant issues at the club? Current standings are here www.wbbl.org.uk/competitions/?WHurl=%2Fstandings%3FAlso, you have to wonder if a club that has a points deficit of over 80 points a game, after 3 games, should be playing in what is meant to the the elite division of the sport in the uK. |
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Post by dexter on Oct 9, 2022 21:42:34 GMT
Interesting to see that the Durham v Caledonia game due to be played today has been called off. Durham are yet to play a game this season. Could this be indicitive of significant issues at the club? Current standings are here www.wbbl.org.uk/competitions/?WHurl=%2Fstandings%3FAlso, you have to wonder if a club that has a points deficit of over 80 points a game, after 3 games, should be playing in what is meant to the the elite division of the sport in the uK. Durham Palatinates WBBL Instagram account hasn't been updated since June. That's not a good sign. |
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Post by milehigh on Oct 15, 2022 19:52:14 GMT
I think we may have a new record low attendance.
Just 25 spectators recorded on FIBA live stats for the Durham v Manchester game today.
I assume for the introductions, they announced the spectators to the players :-)
Also, Oakland lost again, but they are "improving" only by 35 points today.
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dandayr
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Post by dandayr on Oct 15, 2022 21:10:06 GMT
tuned in to watch the end of the Gladiators game - turned off as the stream was unwatchable.
Saw in the chat a comment about 'internet outage' at the venue. Fraid to say if they are relying on the wifi at the Lagoon as opposed to a hard wired connection, I'm not shocked the stream was hard work.
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Post by dexter on Oct 16, 2022 5:33:29 GMT
I think we may have a new record low attendance. Just 25 spectators recorded on FIBA live stats for the Durham v Manchester game today. I assume for the introductions, they announced the spectators to the players :-) Also, Oakland lost again, but they are "improving" only by 35 points today. I’m just pleased to hear Durham still have a team. |
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Post by LTfan on Oct 16, 2022 7:59:51 GMT
I think we may have a new record low attendance. Just 25 spectators recorded on FIBA live stats for the Durham v Manchester game today. I assume for the introductions, they announced the spectators to the players :-) Also, Oakland lost again, but they are "improving" only by 35 points today. Back when Sevenoaks Suns actually played in Sevenoaks (or even in the same county as Sevenoaks) I’ve been to a game where there were less then 10 spectators. And that’s when Sevenoaks were arguably the best team in the WBBL. There’s something so good, and so bad, with Sevenoaks Suns. |
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