|
|
Post by milehigh on Jan 7, 2024 18:37:47 GMT
I note that the "777 Spokesperson" ignores the points about the unethical way the company behaves, and the fact that Wander is a convicted drug dealer. also he has totally ignored questions about why several of the companies Wander is involved with fail to comply with the regulations about the submission of financial accounts on time.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueskies99 on Jan 7, 2024 18:41:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by eillo23 on Jan 7, 2024 19:55:27 GMT
I note that the "777 Spokesperson" ignores the points about the unethical way the company behaves, and the fact that Wander is a convicted drug dealer. also he has totally ignored questions about why several of the companies Wander is involved with fail to comply with the regulations about the submission of financial accounts on time. 777 spokesperson. No just someone with a different view to you. I’ve never said they are angels, nor have I said do I agree with the way they handle business. But they are successful for a reason. I mean…. late accounts aren’t uncommon. The thing I find funny..is the people on here that are most against London and 777 are Riders fans. 😂 makes sense I guess. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 3:23:27 GMT
How do we define 777 as a successful company?
Do we have a functioning profit making business that they’ve successfully increased value in and then sold on?
I knew the riders thing was coming. Just some of us have memories longer than to think back to the throughly hard work a number of clubs have done post ITV digital in recovering themselves and creating sustainable clubs with good foundations and roots. I could moan about Caledonia who clearly have a budget advantage to the rest of the league but I don’t because the owner doesn’t have a business past which involves ripping people off and their first major investment was to get a proper home venue for themselves. That alone will do far more for the long term impact of British Basketball
|
|
|
|
Post by massiveridersfan on Jan 8, 2024 9:31:34 GMT
Would anyone honestly be surprised if 777 announced suddenly that they were selling their stake in the BBL?
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Jan 8, 2024 10:06:18 GMT
Would anyone honestly be surprised if 777 announced suddenly that they were selling their stake in the BBL? What I would say is London Lions do seem to have built an interest and a fan base. If 777 Partners pull out the Copper Box Arena will still be there. If London Lions fold something will replace them. They won't have the same budget but hopefully many of the fans will still come and support, even if they're only playing in the BBL or whatever replaces the BBL. The interest is now there.. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 10:16:37 GMT
Would anyone honestly be surprised if 777 announced suddenly that they were selling their stake in the BBL? They'd need a buyer. And now it's a company loaded with debt. Straight out of the American leverage/debt transfer playbook ala ownership of Manchester United, Burnley and the supermarket chain Morrisons. Obviously their debts are far more larger but still a debt not indicative of the league's value. |
|
|
|
Post by LTfan on Jan 8, 2024 12:10:34 GMT
How do we define 777 as a successful company? Do we have a functioning profit making business that they’ve successfully increased value in and then sold on? By their own admission, they don't operate like that. They don't buy something, increase it's value, and then sell it on. They buy something, increase it's value, and then use the profits to fund further likewise investment opportunities. It's not the typical model, but it's not unheard of either. So a more appropriate question would be are there any examples of 777 buying something and significantly increasing it's profits (so I suppose value) compared to what it was before they took ownership? It's probably still a 'no', and they'll claim they're still a relatively new upstart in the growth phase. But it's a good question. |
|
|
|
Post by LTfan on Jan 8, 2024 12:18:01 GMT
Would anyone honestly be surprised if 777 announced suddenly that they were selling their stake in the BBL? They'd need a buyer. And now it's a company loaded with debt. Straight out of the American leverage/debt transfer playbook ala ownership of Manchester United, Burnley and the supermarket chain Morrisons. Obviously their debts are far more larger but still a debt not indicative of the league's value. I don't believe London Lions are in as much debt as some people think they are. But nevertheless they are in debt... so the question for any potential buyer would be is the cost of that debt worth what you'd be inheriting as opposed to starting a brand new London basketball team from scratch. I know it's on a different scale now, but 777 certainly thought it was when they bought them - because they were in debt then too. Actually come to think of it, the same could be said for back when Vince bought them too. And, as it, they aren't profitable either. So any potential buyer would need to adjust the model, and as a result we'd see a very different London Lions to what we're seeing right now. But I do think the London Lions franchise probably still has value to the right interested party. |
|
|
|
Post by eillo23 on Jan 8, 2024 13:07:53 GMT
Are any high level European basketball teams running on a profit, apart from the giants of euro basketball??? One of you guys that love looking at accounts could maybe take a look.
Professional Sports teams are rarely run at a profit.
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Jan 8, 2024 13:48:46 GMT
Are any high level European basketball teams running on a profit, apart from the giants of euro basketball??? One of you guys that love looking at accounts could maybe take a look. Professional Sports teams are rarely run at a profit. The Euroleague teams all make big losses. They are propped up by their owners and by the football team departments of their sports clubs. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 14:03:44 GMT
They'd need a buyer. And now it's a company loaded with debt. Straight out of the American leverage/debt transfer playbook ala ownership of Manchester United, Burnley and the supermarket chain Morrisons. Obviously their debts are far more larger but still a debt not indicative of the league's value. I don't believe London Lions are in as much debt as some people think they are. But nevertheless they are in debt... so the question for any potential buyer would be is the cost of that debt worth what you'd be inheriting as opposed to starting a brand new London basketball team from scratch. I know it's on a different scale now, but 777 certainly thought it was when they bought them - because they were in debt then too. Actually come to think of it, the same could be said for back when Vince bought them too. And, as it, they aren't profitable either. So any potential buyer would need to adjust the model, and as a result we'd see a very different London Lions to what we're seeing right now. But I do think the London Lions franchise probably still has value to the right interested party. Personally opinion is that Lions would be fine - particularly with an eye to EuroLeague as well that someone can ambitiously scale up (Olympiakos for their own reason were once upon a time EuroLeague only). A real game changer would be getting the Copper Box as their own - blew my mind a bit that it's only finally on the final come on the table for 777. For my criticism I actually think some of the marketing stuff they've done for Lions is very good. In my own experience, I found them advertising at Brick Lane Markets - which is a great audience to aim at. My point was about the BBL as a whole. That's where 777 are so faulted. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 14:13:11 GMT
Are any high level European basketball teams running on a profit, apart from the giants of euro basketball??? One of you guys that love looking at accounts could maybe take a look. Professional Sports teams are rarely run at a profit. British basketball can't afford huge losses. The implications are huge. We've seen it before. You need to build the infrastructure and foundations to have the solid base to be ambitious. If you have that in place; your own arena, your own community/youth set-ups and strong fanbase you can be ambitious to push yourselves as the losses can be negotiated through venue hire and ticket sales. High level European basketball teams with impressive TV deals, massive sponsorship deals, sold out areas of 5k plus and benefactors can afford to take the hit. See Virtus Bologna and their owner's absolute desire to be at the top of EuroLeague. Plenty of examples in sport where it's all rosy when someones there to pick up the tab (Wrexham) but when someone does that for a spell and the infrastructure isn't in place to support anything when it all goes wrong (Bury, Rushden & Diamonds & umpteen others). |
|
|
|
Post by LTfan on Jan 8, 2024 14:37:55 GMT
I don't believe London Lions are in as much debt as some people think they are. But nevertheless they are in debt... so the question for any potential buyer would be is the cost of that debt worth what you'd be inheriting as opposed to starting a brand new London basketball team from scratch. I know it's on a different scale now, but 777 certainly thought it was when they bought them - because they were in debt then too. Actually come to think of it, the same could be said for back when Vince bought them too. And, as it, they aren't profitable either. So any potential buyer would need to adjust the model, and as a result we'd see a very different London Lions to what we're seeing right now. But I do think the London Lions franchise probably still has value to the right interested party. Personally opinion is that Lions would be fine - particularly with an eye to EuroLeague as well that someone can ambitiously scale up (Olympiakos for their own reason were once upon a time EuroLeague only). A real game changer would be getting the Copper Box as their own - blew my mind a bit that it's only finally on the final come on the table for 777. For my criticism I actually think some of the marketing stuff they've done for Lions is very good. In my own experience, I found them advertising at Brick Lane Markets - which is a great audience to aim at. I occasionally wonder why 777 are so focused on EuroCup and Euroleague... being competitive in either costs a lot more than being competitive in just the BBL. And to the average 'fan', or at least the average attendee of a London Lions game, it doesn't matter whether they're playing Panathinaikos, Joventut Badalona, or Newcastle Eagles. I can only think 777 are thinking long term, hoping to attract big-name sponsorship, which will be much easier to do if your brand is know Europe-wide (and beyond) and not just in the UK. If the 'London Lions' suddenly become the 'Adidas London Lions' everything changes overnight. |
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Jan 8, 2024 15:13:00 GMT
I don't believe London Lions are in as much debt as some people think they are. But nevertheless they are in debt... so the question for any potential buyer would be is the cost of that debt worth what you'd be inheriting as opposed to starting a brand new London basketball team from scratch. I know it's on a different scale now, but 777 certainly thought it was when they bought them - because they were in debt then too. Actually come to think of it, the same could be said for back when Vince bought them too. And, as it, they aren't profitable either. So any potential buyer would need to adjust the model, and as a result we'd see a very different London Lions to what we're seeing right now. But I do think the London Lions franchise probably still has value to the right interested party. Personally opinion is that Lions would be fine - particularly with an eye to EuroLeague as well that someone can ambitiously scale up (Olympiakos for their own reason were once upon a time EuroLeague only). A real game changer would be getting the Copper Box as their own - blew my mind a bit that it's only finally on the final come on the table for 777. For my criticism I actually think some of the marketing stuff they've done for Lions is very good. In my own experience, I found them advertising at Brick Lane Markets - which is a great audience to aim at. My point was about the BBL as a whole. That's where 777 are so faulted. I wouldn't want London Lions to buy Copper Box Arena. If they buy it then go bust who ends up owning it? Copper Box Arena is an important sports venue for several indoor sports. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 16:17:01 GMT
Personally opinion is that Lions would be fine - particularly with an eye to EuroLeague as well that someone can ambitiously scale up (Olympiakos for their own reason were once upon a time EuroLeague only). A real game changer would be getting the Copper Box as their own - blew my mind a bit that it's only finally on the final come on the table for 777. For my criticism I actually think some of the marketing stuff they've done for Lions is very good. In my own experience, I found them advertising at Brick Lane Markets - which is a great audience to aim at. My point was about the BBL as a whole. That's where 777 are so faulted. I wouldn't want London Lions to buy Copper Box Arena. If they buy it then go bust who ends up owning it? Copper Box Arena is an important sports venue for several indoor sports. They’d have an asset to their name which in their worst case scenario gives a very quick method of getting cash whilst at the same time gives them income from other sports and the ability to host games when they want. Particularly if they have ambitions of EuroLeague, they’d have the ability to brand it completely in London Lions colours etc. My own view is that for British basketball to be successful, it needs to create an international team capable of getting themselves on free to air TV. That needs clubs to own their arenas, so they can constantly have top facilities for young kids to play. |
|
|
|
Post by milehigh on Jan 8, 2024 17:15:43 GMT
If you are selling a product to a young audience, is having a convicted drug dealer as owner really the image you want to convey?
|
|
|
|
Post by docker on Jan 8, 2024 17:53:04 GMT
I wouldn't want London Lions to buy Copper Box Arena. If they buy it then go bust who ends up owning it? Copper Box Arena is an important sports venue for several indoor sports. They’d have an asset to their name which in their worst case scenario gives a very quick method of getting cash whilst at the same time gives them income from other sports and the ability to host games when they want. Particularly if they have ambitions of EuroLeague, they’d have the ability to brand it completely in London Lions colours etc. My own view is that for British basketball to be successful, it needs to create an international team capable of getting themselves on free to air TV. That needs clubs to own their arenas, so they can constantly have top facilities for young kids to play. One of the recent articles did suggest that Lions are considering taking over the lease of the Copper Box from GLL. That could be a smart move on a number of levels as you suggest. It has also been announced today that 777 have just injected another £40m into Everton FC: theathletic.com/5186858/2024/01/08/777-partners-everton-cash-injection/ ... so not running out of cash just yet! |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 17:59:55 GMT
Personally opinion is that Lions would be fine - particularly with an eye to EuroLeague as well that someone can ambitiously scale up (Olympiakos for their own reason were once upon a time EuroLeague only). A real game changer would be getting the Copper Box as their own - blew my mind a bit that it's only finally on the final come on the table for 777. For my criticism I actually think some of the marketing stuff they've done for Lions is very good. In my own experience, I found them advertising at Brick Lane Markets - which is a great audience to aim at. I occasionally wonder why 777 are so focused on EuroCup and Euroleague... being competitive in either costs a lot more than being competitive in just the BBL. And to the average 'fan', or at least the average attendee of a London Lions game, it doesn't matter whether they're playing Panathinaikos, Joventut Badalona, or Newcastle Eagles. I can only think 777 are thinking long term, hoping to attract big-name sponsorship, which will be much easier to do if your brand is know Europe-wide (and beyond) and not just in the UK. If the 'London Lions' suddenly become the 'Adidas London Lions' everything changes overnight. Totally agree but also think realistically Euroleague is required to pull the players in which gets the sponsorship deal. It's all that which aligns more of their goals - speculate to profit. They'd also get sold out away sections with the Turks, Greeks, Serbs and Israelis. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jan 8, 2024 18:03:55 GMT
They’d have an asset to their name which in their worst case scenario gives a very quick method of getting cash whilst at the same time gives them income from other sports and the ability to host games when they want. Particularly if they have ambitions of EuroLeague, they’d have the ability to brand it completely in London Lions colours etc. My own view is that for British basketball to be successful, it needs to create an international team capable of getting themselves on free to air TV. That needs clubs to own their arenas, so they can constantly have top facilities for young kids to play. One of the recent articles did suggest that Lions are considering taking over the lease of the Copper Box from GLL. That could be a smart move on a number of levels as you suggest. It has also been announced today that they have just injected another £40m into Everton FC: theathletic.com/5186858/2024/01/08/777-partners-everton-cash-injection/ ... so not running out of cash just yet! Yeah that's what I was referring - just amazed for a supposedly bunch of clever people it's taken a long time for them to realise the benefit of such a play. |
|
