|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 10:14:47 GMT
If you question it because it’s your team, it you’ve believed everything else, you’re making yourself look foolish. Clubs make mistakes and learn from it Personally I'm not questioning it because its my team I'm questioning because I've met Kevin Routledge and I think he's a stand up guy And the info about this other interested investor sound flakey at best Let's be honest? Not withstanding 777 was a mistake in retrospect. For everybody to learn from including Kevin and way bigger sports organisations than BBL around the world who also took the 777 money |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 12:04:26 GMT
If you question it because it’s your team, it you’ve believed everything else, you’re making yourself look foolish. Clubs make mistakes and learn from it Personally I'm not questioning it because its my team I'm questioning because I've met Kevin Routledge and I think he's a stand up guy And the info about this other interested investor sound flakey at best Let's be honest? Not withstanding 777 was a mistake in retrospect. For everybody to learn from including Kevin and way bigger sports organisations than BBL around the world who also took the 777 money My other sports team I support (Forest) I certainly wouldn't trust the owners. I'm not swayed by being a fan in that respect |
|
|
|
Post by donthatetheplayer on Jun 26, 2024 14:22:44 GMT
It was widely known and reported at the time that the other investors/Kuwaitis were at the 02 Final in May 2021 and that due diligence had been completed by then, all this was out there at the time. That being said, if the investors were time wasters, what was their motivation for doing so and why were they still being wined/dined ny the bbl board at this late stage? Clearly the bbl board members at the time can only answer those questions and kevin routledge and the others were leading the charge so it's right and proper they are asked those questions, however uncomfortable, as it were those decisions that are now looking questionable and they led us to this point. Nobody should get a free pass whoever they are, the elite game is broken and has been set back a decade.
|
|
|
|
Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 26, 2024 14:54:22 GMT
Let’s face it. Everyone knew Wander was a convicted felon, including Routledge was a convicted felon and they took the money like everyone else. I would wonder what happens to the money as I suspect BBL owners would have “cashed in” to some degree but we probably won’t find out how that played out in the end.
BBL had no other choice and the offer that directed cash into the pockets of BBL owners was probably the best option for them. Shows they never really cared about anything else.
Repeat: BBL KNEW THAT WANDER WAS A CRIMINAL AND A FELON BUT THEY TOOK THE MONEY ANYWAY!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Jun 26, 2024 15:29:19 GMT
Let’s face it. Everyone knew Wander was a convicted felon, including Routledge was a convicted felon and they took the money like everyone else. I would wonder what happens to the money as I suspect BBL owners would have “cashed in” to some degree but we probably won’t find out how that played out in the end. BBL had no other choice and the offer that directed cash into the pockets of BBL owners was probably the best option for them. Shows they never really cared about anything else. Repeat: BBL KNEW THAT WANDER WAS A CRIMINAL AND A FELON BUT THEY TOOK THE MONEY ANYWAY!!! It should have been obvious to anyone and everyone that Josh Wander is an Allen Stanford type character. |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 17:14:20 GMT
It was widely known and reported at the time that the other investors/Kuwaitis were at the 02 Final in May 2021 and that due diligence had been completed by then, all this was out there at the time. That being said, if the investors were time wasters, what was their motivation for doing so and why were they still being wined/dined ny the bbl board at this late stage? Clearly the bbl board members at the time can only answer those questions and kevin routledge and the others were leading the charge so it's right and proper they are asked those questions, however uncomfortable, as it were those decisions that are now looking questionable and they led us to this point. Nobody should get a free pass whoever they are, the elite game is broken and has been set back a decade. Sorry ? Who exactly are you saying had completed due diligence by 2021? Very clearly Kevin Routledge saying BBL hadn't completed due diligence on anyone? And hadn't even met any potential buyers to conduct due diligence on? If you are saying buyers had conducted due diligence on BBL that's absolutely worthless and meaningless if they don't let BBL do the same? Won't give them proof of funds. Nor even tell them who they are? Are you saying Kevin Routledge is lying in his statement? Because unless he's lying I don't really see what other questions he should be answering tbh? Or that any questions are uncomfortable ? He seems to have answered very simply and categorically already? Unless he's being misquoted? |
|
|
|
Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 26, 2024 17:32:07 GMT
Nobody can claim they didn't know that 777 and Josh Wander were criminals. They knew, and they took the money anyway, and probably lined their own pocket.
As a fan, I suggest that either kevin, or somebody from the British basketball Federation make a public statement where they can take questions on all the of the shenanigans that has been going on. If they cannot provide leadership, they should all resign immediately..
|
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 17:46:21 GMT
Nobody can claim they didn't know that 777 and Josh Wander were criminals. They knew, and they took the money anyway, and probably lined their own pocket. As a fan, I suggest that either kevin, or somebody from the British basketball Federation make a public statement where they can take questions on all the of the shenanigans that has been going on. If they cannot provide leadership, they should all resign immediately.. I'm no fan at all of 777. Never have been. I've questioned them from the start because their investment in BBL made no financial sense to me. Was like throwing money down the drain. But this is a very unusual sham that 777 have been doing where they DID have funds that they proved they had and they DID invest to seriously high levels in multiple sports clubs and organisations around the world You have to acknowledge that. You also have to acknowledge many of the organisations 777 invested in had far more funds and lawyer and accounting resource to do their own due diligence on 777 than BBL ever had If 777 could inject 100m plus in a Premier League Football Club and buy other clubs around Europe then they could certainly convince the BBL they were legit investors And clearly DID invest 777 also convinced airlines to sell up to them! Not sure exactly who is left in British Basketball in any authority you now want to resign tbh and why you want them to resign exactly? |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 18:07:41 GMT
If the investors were time wasters, what was their motivation for doing so and why were they still being wined/dined ny the bbl board at this late stage? Because the board was hoping eventually they would make an offer or come good? What would you prefer they do? Give up after 3 months, 6 months, 12 months? What's the right amount of time to give potential investors to deliver something tangible? Who knows - maybe the motivation of the timewasters was to get wined and dined as long as possible ? |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 18:10:47 GMT
Nobody can claim they didn't know that 777 and Josh Wander were criminals. They knew, and they took the money anyway, and probably lined their own pocket. As a fan, I suggest that either kevin, or somebody from the British basketball Federation make a public statement where they can take questions on all the of the shenanigans that has been going on. If they cannot provide leadership, they should all resign immediately.. Wander had a drugs conviction age 21? Does that stop him being an entrepreneur/investor ? |
|
|
|
Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 26, 2024 18:39:26 GMT
In America, a felony is a disqualification factor for finance so how did he raise 10B? Red flag no matter what his age was and if he was a minority, forget about it.
Depending on the prosecutor in the NY investigation, he may pursue redress from those who knowingly took money. Everyone knew and I suspect this is part of the ongoing investigation.
Any competent DD background check would have flagged them. Fact is, either no one did DD, or they did and took the money anyway. There will be some questions from the SDNY investigator for sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 18:46:32 GMT
In America, a felony is a disqualification factor for finance so how did he raise 10B? Red flag no matter what his age was and if he was a minority, forget about it. Depending on the prosecutor in the NY investigation, he may pursue redress from those who knowingly took money. Everyone knew and I suspect this is part of the ongoing investigation. Any competent DD background check would have flagged them. Fact is, either no one did DD, or they did and took the money anyway. There will be some questions from the SDNY investigator for sure. Sorry that's all totally irrelevant IMO After due diligence people make informed decisions Countless organisations would be aware he's got a drugs conviction age 21 And all lined up to still accept investment Far bigger questions to worry about than past criminal convictions Proof of funds being one Not only did 777 prove funds. I've read in total over their brief time with BBL and London Lions they actually invested 30M in British basketball |
|
|
|
Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 26, 2024 18:59:57 GMT
In America, a felony is a disqualification factor for finance so how did he raise 10B? Red flag no matter what his age was and if he was a minority, forget about it. Depending on the prosecutor in the NY investigation, he may pursue redress from those who knowingly took money. Everyone knew and I suspect this is part of the ongoing investigation. Any competent DD background check would have flagged them. Fact is, either no one did DD, or they did and took the money anyway. There will be some questions from the SDNY investigator for sure. Sorry that's all totally irrelevant IMO After due diligence people make informed decisions Countless organisations would be aware he's got a drugs conviction age 21 And all lined up to still accept investment Far bigger questions to worry about than past criminal convictions Proof of funds being one Not only did 777 prove funds. I've read in total over their brief time with BBL and London Lions they actually invested 30M in British basketball If they invested funds that were illegally obtained, and if it’s proved the recipients knowingly accepted those funds, there will be issues. In America, Wander would be disqualified. Seeing that the legal cases are in US courts, and the UK is a close jurisdictional partner, there could be redress. A felony is a very big deal so don’t try to minimize that point. This is why Wander didn’t try to launder that money in the US. |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 19:19:01 GMT
Sorry that's all totally irrelevant IMO After due diligence people make informed decisions Countless organisations would be aware he's got a drugs conviction age 21 And all lined up to still accept investment Far bigger questions to worry about than past criminal convictions Proof of funds being one Not only did 777 prove funds. I've read in total over their brief time with BBL and London Lions they actually invested 30M in British basketball If they invested funds that were illegally obtained, and if it’s proved the recipients knowingly accepted those funds, there will be issues. In America, Wander would be disqualified. Seeing that the legal cases are in US courts, and the UK is a close jurisdictional partner, there could be redress. A felony is a very big deal so don’t try to minimize that point. This is why Wander didn’t try to launder that money in the US. It's still a very minor part in what's happened with all due respect Also on one hand people can't say knowing your buyer is vital then criticise Kev Routledge when he says the initial potential investor wanted to stay anonymous How can a seller possibly meet any money laundering rules at all when a potential investor won't even give their name to check out |
|
|
|
Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 26, 2024 20:08:44 GMT
If they invested funds that were illegally obtained, and if it’s proved the recipients knowingly accepted those funds, there will be issues. In America, Wander would be disqualified. Seeing that the legal cases are in US courts, and the UK is a close jurisdictional partner, there could be redress. A felony is a very big deal so don’t try to minimize that point. This is why Wander didn’t try to launder that money in the US. It's still a very minor part in what's happened with all due respect Also on one hand people can't say knowing your buyer is vital then criticise Kev Routledge when he says the initial potential investor wanted to stay anonymous How can a seller possibly meet any money laundering rules at all when a potential investor won't even give their name to check out There is a process for this you obviously are not aware of. In the real world, investee will hire a third party to vett proof and veracity of funds and indemnify in the event of fraud. This is especially pertinent if the investor represents third part funds such as private equity. There will be a report issued before money is transferred. As Wander is a convicted felon, red flags would be raised by whoever is doing the DD regardless. If this was done and they proceeded anyway, that is telling. And if they didn’t bother, that too would be telling. Either way, the BBL team owners that voted to take the money will find it next to impossible to do another round of financing with credible investors. Therefore, I understand why BBF chose to bail and distance themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 21:37:05 GMT
It's still a very minor part in what's happened with all due respect Also on one hand people can't say knowing your buyer is vital then criticise Kev Routledge when he says the initial potential investor wanted to stay anonymous How can a seller possibly meet any money laundering rules at all when a potential investor won't even give their name to check out There is a process for this you obviously are not aware of. In the real world, investee will hire a third party to vett proof and veracity of funds and indemnify in the event of fraud. This is especially pertinent if the investor represents third part funds such as private equity. There will be a report issued before money is transferred. As Wander is a convicted felon, red flags would be raised by whoever is doing the DD regardless. If this was done and they proceeded anyway, that is telling. And if they didn’t bother, that too would be telling. Either way, the BBL team owners that voted to take the money will find it next to impossible to do another round of financing with credible investors. Therefore, I understand why BBF chose to bail and distance themselves. So please explain how the Everton football club who took 100m plus of investment from 777 and continued to take millions from them as recently as April even AFTER 777 were being accused of fraud and running a Ponzi scheme etc Aren't finding it next to impossible to get new investors? And have people competing to buy them? How can that possibly be? I will explain by saying its 777 who are the bad guys here and not the organisations who after due diligence all chose to take several hundreds of millions in investments between them We have Flair Airlines Canada Bonza Airlines Australia London Lions UK Everton FC UK Genoa FC Italy Hertha Germany Standard Liege Belgium Red Star France STX Entertainment USA Vasco da Gama Brazil Amongst others Yet in amongst all that you believe the BBL directors should have turned down the investment they were offered by 777? You aren't being realistic And as I repeat the bad guys here are 777. Not the organisations who they invested in Being a victim of 777 is not a reason for new investors to turn their backs on the investees |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Jun 26, 2024 21:58:17 GMT
Sorry that's all totally irrelevant IMO After due diligence people make informed decisions Countless organisations would be aware he's got a drugs conviction age 21 And all lined up to still accept investment Far bigger questions to worry about than past criminal convictions Proof of funds being one Not only did 777 prove funds. I've read in total over their brief time with BBL and London Lions they actually invested 30M in British basketball If they invested funds that were illegally obtained, and if it’s proved the recipients knowingly accepted those funds, there will be issues. In America, Wander would be disqualified. Seeing that the legal cases are in US courts, and the UK is a close jurisdictional partner, there could be redress. A felony is a very big deal so don’t try to minimize that point. This is why Wander didn’t try to launder that money in the US. 777 have had financial involvement in the US though? Hence why the legal cases have come to light that were well documented in this thread. Wander as an individual and 777 as a company are two separate entities. Looking at the dates the claims that there was bad news already doesn’t tally. British bball was their first completed sporting investment. The first public story of Wander’s felony charge is after that date too. I hate them as much as anyone but there’s a revisionism being had here |
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 26, 2024 22:08:27 GMT
If they invested funds that were illegally obtained, and if it’s proved the recipients knowingly accepted those funds, there will be issues. In America, Wander would be disqualified. Seeing that the legal cases are in US courts, and the UK is a close jurisdictional partner, there could be redress. A felony is a very big deal so don’t try to minimize that point. This is why Wander didn’t try to launder that money in the US. 777 have had financial involvement in the US though? Hence why the legal cases have come to light that were well documented in this thread. Wander as an individual and 777 as a company are two separate entities. Looking at the dates the claims that there was bad news already doesn’t tally. British bball was their first completed sporting investment. The first public story of Wander’s felony charge is after that date too. I hate them as much as anyone but there’s a revisionism being had here Correct In 2019 Flair Airlines in Canada were celebrating the fact a company as strong as 777 were taking a 25 per cent share in the business London Lions sold to them in 2019 also in entirety BBL not til Dec 2021 and then only 45 per cent shareholding investment. When BBL accepted the investment from 777 they had recently just bought Bonza Airlines and Genoa FC. A string of further investments followed soon after. Not until further down the line did late payment stories start to emerge. And let's add that when BBL chose to accept 777 investment Sir Rodney Walker was BBL chairman. And had been for 5 years Extremely experienced businessman and business leader |
|
|
|
Post by donthatetheplayer on Jun 27, 2024 14:52:25 GMT
A quick 777 search rang alarm bells when we saw that 777 were established in 2015 by Wander, at that time in his early 30's with no discernable traceable wealth suddenly buying up sports franchises. I distinctly remember across Whats Bev and all other outlets there was a level of scepticism surrounding who these people actually were and that never went away.
The cocaine trafficking police mugshot followed soon after the deal was announced and went viral in UK basketball circles. Are we to believe the BBL Board hadn't considered these aspects? To not have held suspicions would have been an entirely untenable position by simply connecting a Open Source dots.
So now, in a revisionist capacity, they can and must be judged as it is the only thing basketball fans can do at this moment. It is also right to question the catastrophic failure to manage their stake in the BBL at the time of completion and the following years. Leaving all other questions aside, how on earth does an entity with a 45% stake then mount an effective takeover of the league and be allowed to saddle it with the kind of debt which led it to a death spiral? We know that Kevin Routledge resigned from the BBL in late 2022, was he fired or resigned? This all matters now. Is KR telling the truth? I don't know. What I do know is that there will be some serious backside covering attempts going on by some of those involved and there is a conspiracy of silence by all involved. That doesn't engender trust.
|
|
|
|
Post by irf on Jun 27, 2024 15:15:52 GMT
A quick 777 search rang alarm bells when we saw that 777 were established in 2015 by Wander, at that time in his early 30's with no discernable traceable wealth suddenly buying up sports franchises. I distinctly remember across Whats Bev and all other outlets there was a level of scepticism surrounding who these people actually were and that never went away. The cocaine trafficking police mugshot followed soon after the deal was announced and went viral in UK basketball circles. Are we to believe the BBL Board hadn't considered these aspects? To not have held suspicions would have been an entirely untenable position by simply connecting a Open Source dots. So now, in a revisionist capacity, they can and must be judged as it is the only thing basketball fans can do at this moment. It is also right to question the catastrophic failure to manage their stake in the BBL at the time of completion and the following years. Leaving all other questions aside, how on earth does an entity with a 45% stake then mount an effective takeover of the league and be allowed to saddle it with the kind of debt which led it to a death spiral? We know that Kevin Routledge resigned from the BBL in late 2022, was he fired or resigned? This all matters now. Is KR telling the truth? I don't know. What I do know is that there will be some serious backside covering attempts going on by some of those involved and there is a conspiracy of silence by all involved. That doesn't engender trust. Sorry I will ask again? Who are you saying completed due diligence by 2021? |
|
