NBA 2023-24 season

[SamH]

With the huge news of Damian Lillard going to the Bucks, I thought this was a good time to start a new thread for the up-coming season.

Lillard to the Bucks certainly makes them an imposing team, but I wonder if it's come a bit too late? He's pushing his mid-30s now and has missed a lot of games the last 2 seasons. Is he that big an upgrade on Jrue Holliday, who himself has been an all star? It will be interesting to see though, and it makes Lillard relevant again after the last few years wasting away in Portland.

[jumbo]

Dame will be amazing. Not sure how well he will age at 35+ but next 2 years he will be all nba level barring injury. A big chunk of the games he missed were because Portland were tanking the last 2 years.

I've been watching Portland since before Dame and he probably had the best individual year of his career last season. I wish I could find the stats but I remember reading an article earlier in the summer that the advanced stats put his 2022/23 season on a similar level to Jokic as one of the best individual offensive seasons by a player in league history. Now you can make stats say what you want to an extent. But the guy is a one man offence.

Him and Giannis 'should' be the most unstoppable offensive duo in the league. Not just this year but over recent years. They 'should' compliment each other so well. Got to wait and see it out on the court though.

Defence has always been the thing with Dame. But...he has had to carry an entire offence on his back for every possession for nearly 40 mins a night for about a decade. He shouldn't have to do that next year. Leaves more energy for the other side of the ball. Also...he actually has a capable defensive team around him. His teams have barely had a single 2 way player since Wes Matthews and Nic Batum left yonks ago. He's going to be surrounded by them. That can cover up a lot of sins. He's been exposed in Portland sharing the back court with undersized defensively limited players, having no on ball wing defenders and little to no interior defence behind him. Makes the whole team look bad (they were!)

Obviously it could all blow up but I would not be shocked at all if they win 65 games in each of the next couple of seasons. Whether they can win the lot...depends on the day(s). A lot of talented teams out there. Would be genuinely surprised if they don't make the finals at least once though.

[jumbo]

As a side note, I really like Jrue Holiday. Always wondered if he'd be a decent partner for Dame in the back court. Excellent defensive player. Obviously doesn't fit the timeline for us now. Should be able to flip him easily and he'll fetch a decent return though. What contender doesn't want a guy like that.

[SamH]

Holiday ends up in Boston! Interesting - should be a great contest between them and the Bucks. The sixers meanwhile continue to be a mess, with Harden not reporting to the first day of training camp. Feel bad for Nick Nurse coming into all this! Harden wants to go to the Clippers, but why would they want him knowing his track record? And if they can keep PG13 and Leonard healthy (ok thats a big if!) they don't need him really, as they have 2 elite scorers already which is about all he's good for these days. I like to think the sixers are cursed following their 'trust the process' tanking strategy of a decade ago. Embiid was the only good thing that came from all those years of misery but they still haven't even been to a conference final with him. I hated that deliberate and blatant tanking and have always hoped it would never prove to have been worth it. Once Embiid has enough and requests a trade, that will be the end of it.

[SamH]

So James Harden gets his way and forces himself to yet another team, finally going to the Clippers. I really hate to see guys like this get their way when they behave so awfully and like spoilt brats. But more, I cannot understand why the Clippers would want him, let alone give up all the pieces and picks they did to get him. He's forced his way out of every team he's been on, the last 2 after less than 2 years.(People think OKC traded him because they didn't want to pay him but that isn't true, he wanted to be the man and was never going to be behind KD and Russ, so they dealt him before he walked). He generally doesn't show up for big games in the playoffs, never has done. And he's failed to play effectively alongside Westbrook at both OKC and Houston, yet now they're paired together again. I absolutely don't get it and like Kyrie going to Dallas, I'm confident this won't work.

On paper a team with Leonard, PG13, Westbrook and Harden looks like it should be absolutely dominant, but somehow I just can't see it. Wait for injury and chemistry issues and it will be the same old Clippers, going nowhere in a hurry.

[SamH]

Well, we got our first taste of what Wembanyama could be last night, as he dropped 38 and 10 on one of the best teams in the league in Phoenix. That's also twice the Spurs have beaten the Suns this week, although they have been missing their 2 star guards. Looks like Booker did play last night though.

Anyway, check this stat out from espn: Wembanyama is 15-of-19 in the fourth quarter this season. His 78.9% is the best in the league among the 117 NBA players who have attempted 10 field goals in the fourth.

Also: Wembanyama's 38 points are tied for the third-most scored by a rookie in Spurs history. Only David Robinson had more than Wembanyama, with games of 41 and 39 points in 1990.

That's impressive only 5 games into his career. So even Tim Duncan didn't have a 38 point game as a rookie, wow. This kid is going to be very very special.

[keithkr]

Before I went over there I didn't take much interest in the American game, while I was there I saw quite a lot of it, never knew they played so often

[SamH]

Yeah pretty much every other day. Arguably too many games, but as long as they keep filling the arenas and getting the tv money, it won't change.

Meanwhile I see the Clippers are 0-5 since trading for Harden...🤔

[milehigh]

In the game at Denver last night, Clippers looked a very unbalanced side, with only one really big player, and a lot of the scoring coming from the bench players. Nuggetts, missing Jamal Murray, kept their unbeaten home record, and stay top of their group for the in season tournament.

[SamH]

The only problem for me with the in-season tournament has become evident from OKC losing its first 2 games in it - basically rendering the remaining 2 games not important, at least no more so than any other game for the regular season. I think it would be better to have fewer but bigger groups - maybe 5 groups of 6 teams instead of the other way around. That way if you lose a game, 2 games - you could still potentially qualify 2nd in your group. With 5 groups it could be the 5 winners and 3 best runner up teams, but you'd get to play 5 group games instead of only 4. Might help keep things interesting for longer for more teams? I do like the bright courts and uniforms they have for these games though.

[hayesboy]

I don't think that is correct at all Sam. The good thing about how they have woven the group stages into the regular season is that it means there are no meaningless games.
Even in the NBA games in November are not meaningless as every team still has the ability to (in theory at least) massively improve their standing with so many games to play.

The success of the in game tourney can only really be judged further down the line. We will know more once this one is done and dusted for sure.

For me a bigger issue long term is that the product is do diluted due to the sheer volume of games in the NBA period. The issue is that the economics of the NBA are so reliant on the huge amount of games. It would be a massive leap of faith to get the owners to agree "less is more" and trust that over time a higher quality lower volume output could potentially be at least as valuable as now.

I liken it to the Nike model. They could make almost any quantity of their signature kicks they like. They could also probably charge more than they do for them....but presumably they recognise that flooding the market will ultimately devalue the desirability of the product. Instead they restrict supply and massively increase demand. If the NBA owners could be convinced that strategy would work then I think we would have a much better NBA product. Less injuries, load management, more competitive games etc, etc.

[SamH]

Yeah I know every game counts for something, but in terms of their aim being to put more emphasis on some of these early games which don't draw as much fan interest and sometimes even player engagement. Once you drop 2 in your group, that goes out the window. It was actually disappointing as I watched OKC v Spurs on TNT sports and apart from the funky court, it really didn't have that extra zing to it as both teams are already done. But I am sure there will be tweaks to this tournament as the years go on - I think its hear to stay and will become accepted by the wider fanbase soon enough, but they're sure to make some changes to the format and try different things. I definitely think its a good idea overall, but yes I would be in favour of fewer games overall as well - as a fan, you can almost suffer from 'NBA fatigue' at times!

[spacejammer]

This NBA tournament is new and I think it is interesting to see a league like the NBA trying new things and I think it is refreshing.
The format I don't quite get and I think it would be better either knockout FA Cup style or Copa Del Rey style where the teams all meet in 1 location and face off.

But I give the NBA credit for trying something new and trying to create something different to a best of 7 series.
And I think it compliments other basketball leagues around the world like the Euroleague or even the BBL who have different styles of competition.

I think the 9th-10th December weekend is a final 4 for this tournament to which I might tune in and view it.

[SamH]

See, it's getting interesting now. The Pacers and probably the Kings and Magic going through...Denver eliminated. Lakers through despite being a.500 team. I think it'll be good for the tournament and the league having the Lakers and LeBron go to Vegas. You know Silver is happy about that. But its nice LeBron will have the opportunity to take part in it as he hasn't got long left now.

I think its definitely been better having it than not having it, but suspect there will be format tweaks in the years to come.

[milehigh]

The NBA currently has a significant problem with the inconsistancy of match officials, with obvious blatent fouls been missed at one end, but the slightest contact been called at the other end. there are also officials who are blatent in their favouring certain teams and players.

The in season tournament is a way for the NBA to build interest at a time of year when the NFL and college foorball seasons are getting most of the media attention, it seems to be working so far.

[SamH]

I noticed there was yet another Scott Foster/Chris Paul episode the other day, with Foster ejecting Paul seemingly unreasonably. I don't understand why the league doesn't do something about this - its been going on for years and everyone knows its a thing. Paul's playoff record in matches reffed by Foster is something like 3-17, that is a significant disparity to his overall record, and should be looked into. Yet instead, Foster is touted as one of the best officials in the league and gets assigned to finals games every year! I don't get it.

[SamH]

Ok so now the first part of the in season tournament is over, I have a few conclusions to draw. Last night was fricking terrible, with all the permutations. Teams have to win by 38 and hope another team loses by more than 9 and god knows what else. It was literally impossible to keep up with and understand. So in the end you give up and just wait for the next day to see which teams made it and which didn't. And then you have a bunch of teams with a 3-1 record, some got in and some didn't. Based on point differential! That's even worse than the BBL's aggregate scoring over 2 games nonsense.

So while there was much to like about this, I think they need to work on the standings issue next year. I'm going to propose increasing the number of games again, but this time let's increase it to something that will provide some separation and mean the teams that make it have genuinely earned it, not because they happened to score more points here or there. So we go to 4 groups of 8, 8, 9 and 9 teams. Teams either play 7 or 8 games. Winner of each group goes straight through to the Vegas semi finals (I only just realised the quarter finals aren't actually being played in Vegas, so let's just get rid of them). Tie-break situation? Easy - head to head goes top. If there's a 3 way tie and they all beat each other once, then you go to some silly tie-breaker like point difference, or who had the funkiest court or whatever. But it's much less likely to happen and if it does, probably only in 1 group.

And then we have the 4 winners going to Vegas for the cup playoffs.

This points nonsense has to stop. But I did enjoy the fact Golden State had to beat Sacramento by 12+ and blew a 24 point lead, then blew the game and lost by 1. LOL!

[SamH]

So pretty random - Pacers v Lakers in the cup final! Pacers have done really well throughout the tournament, winning every game and being first to go through from the groups. They represent what the whole point of the tournament is - this is a team that won't have championship aspirations this year, but they have a chance to win something and celebrate with some hardware, and it's even more poignant given the Pacers have never won an NBA championship. Now their fans might just have something to cheer for after all these years, apart from a couple of conference championships that no one seems to care about. And with it being straight knockout, the fact they beat the Bucks to make the final is quite significant - no way they could beat them over a 7 game series, but in a one off upsets can happen. I think it's been a really good idea overall, apart from my previous moan about the tie-breaker situation.

Meanwhile back to the normal stuff - Chris Finch has quietly got the Timberwolves into first place in the West with a 15-4 record. This is a team that's never really achieved anything in its entire history, but if they can win a championship...well it would be great to see both Nurse and Finch both achieve the highest accolade in pro basketball, wouldn't it?

[milehigh]

La Lakers won the in season tournament, with a fairly easy win over Indiana Pacers in the final overnight.

[SamH]

Yeah fair play to the Lakers, but I was surprised AD didn't get the MVP. Its awarded for the whole tournament but he had a monster game in the final which surely is what really counts.

Anyway, thats something the Cetics haven't got now!