BBL expansion

[dexter]

What would you rather? The BBL expands with more teams, or the existing teams add more depth to their squads?

The reason I ask is watching London Lions is a bit like watching top European basketball. A star player goes off and someone just as good comes on. And that's in every position.

Let's say there was a 40% more funding available for BBL teams (excluding London Lions). Would it be better to add a couple of new teams, or spend 40% more on player squads for the existing teams?

[D44]

For me 12 teams and 8 make the playoffs seems about right. And the playoffs being best of 3, not aggregate with the higher seed getting the two home ties of the three.
London having the greatest squad in the history of British basketball seems like a bit of an anomaly, I'd much rather teams were sustainable and had there own venues like Eagles and Riders.

[Deleted]

Desperately need new teams, obviously they need to be stable long term so can’t just let anyone in, but 9 just isn’t enough

[dexter]

Sept 25, 2022 19:17:32 GMT D44 said:

For me 12 teams and 8 make the playoffs seems about right. And the playoffs being best of 3, not aggregate with the higher seed getting the two home ties of the three.
London having the greatest squad in the history of British basketball seems like a bit of an anomaly, I'd much rather teams were sustainable and had there own venues like Eagles and Riders.

You're probably right. I watch one London Lions game (I actually watched it twice) and I am now totally spoilt and unrealistic. We can enjoy watching London Lions, and we can enjoy competitive battles like Giants vs Sharks we saw this evening. The other consideration is if we just strengthened the squads of the current 10 teams that will probably just mean paying more foreign players and restricting game time for British players.

[spacejammer]

I would love to see a league of 14-16 team which might be over ambitious but it would certainly spice things up as to who qualifies for the playoffs.
And theirs plenty of areas in this country that doesn't have a BBL team within a good radius.

Although right now the current state of the BBL needs more stability.
Granted it is on the up but a long way to go and their are always questions about how stable the league and certain teams are.

[milehigh]

Yes, the BBL does need to expand, but it also has to have stability, where the clubs involved are sustainable and financially viable businesses that pay their bills to suppliers and HMRC on time.

Removing the salery cap was a very bad move, allowing one side that has relatively unlimited resources to dominate is not good for a competitive and balanced competition, and will probably lead to two or more clubs folding.

[SamH]

I always felt it needed more teams. When I started watching in the mid 90s we had 13 teams but I always thought 16 would be great, providing they could all be reasonably competitive. Then you could possibly entertain the idea of bringing back the north and south conferences, if you could have 8 in each. It might actually work then. Although I want the NBA to scrap conferences and go to a straight 1-16 playoff format so I'd probably still be against that.

I think if we go down the route of having say, 8 teams but 8 teams that are deep and talented, we're turning into what the BBA said it would be for all those years. It never seemed feasible.

For me 16 teams or even 12-14, would help develop interest in more areas of the country and add credibility to the league so I'd go for that.

[massiveridersfan]

Sept 25, 2022 19:52:15 GMT milehigh said:

Yes, the BBL does need to expand, but it also has to have stability, where the clubs involved are sustainable and financially viable businesses that pay their bills to suppliers and HMRC on time.

Removing the salery cap was a very bad move, allowing one side that has relatively unlimited resources to dominate is not good for a competitive and balanced competition, and will probably lead to two or more clubs folding.

I'm concerned you're right. It all feels a bit unreal and as if it's built on sand. Basically, we have to accept that one team is way beyond all the rest in terms of spending power which makes a mockery of competition. (Unless they are crap as a team - hmmm... don't think that's likely)

[SamH]

That's got me thinking about the geography of the 13 teams when I started following it. If I remember rightly we had:

Worthing
3 X London (Towers, leopards, crystal palace)
Birmingham
Leicester
Sheffield
Newcastle
Derby
Thames valley
Manchester
Hemel and Watford

Now that's really good geography, the league is covering most areas of the country or at least there's a team not too far away for most. The south west and perhaps Norfolk being the exceptions.

Then soon came Edinburgh and obviously Plymouth a bit later on. Everton/Mersey.

And Roberts' yer father's brother. 16 teams. If only some (most) didn't go kaput. But look how well those 16 teams cover the country. I think something like that would be fantastic.

[baldereagle]

That’s a very SE biased idea of good national coverage - I suspect you forgot Chester, but even then there was nothing Sw of Birmingham. Bristol Cardiff Leeds Liverpool Norwich Edinburgh Glasgow Belfast would ideally all be represented, but only 2 have made it so far.

[dexter]

Sept 26, 2022 7:33:14 GMT baldereagle said:

That’s a very SE biased idea of good national coverage - I suspect you forgot Chester, but even then there was nothing Sw of Birmingham. Bristol Cardiff Leeds Liverpool Norwich Edinburgh Glasgow Belfast would ideally all be represented, but only 2 have made it so far.

Belfast Star play in the Irish Super League. I don't think there will ever be a Northern Irish team in the BBL unless there is some kind of new British and Irish basketball league, and that could only be viable if the sport becomes much bigger with bigger budgets.

All three proposed expansion teams (Edinburgh, Birmingham and Reading) would be good but as ever suitable venues is an issue. I think Edinburgh has a few options (Meadowbank, Oriam).

[SamH]

Sept 26, 2022 7:33:14 GMT baldereagle said:

That’s a very SE biased idea of good national coverage - I suspect you forgot Chester, but even then there was nothing Sw of Birmingham. Bristol Cardiff Leeds Liverpool Norwich Edinburgh Glasgow Belfast would ideally all be represented, but only 2 have made it so far.

Yes I did forget Chester, making up the 13. It's not really SE biased as a lot of of the teams are in the north and midlands. I see your point though that with Plymouth being right down on the south coast there isn't anything in the west until you go up to the Mersey area (had they kept the team) although of course we do now have Bristol but I didn't mention them as they came along later (I think) from NBL.

But anyway thats all hypothetical as most of those teams have long since gone.

Looking ahead I think it would be great if Belfast got a team and the East of England could do with one. Also the south east coast since the Bears went and Thunder went back to NBL, has been bereft of a team.

[stevetino]

Even Durham managed a few seasons, wildcats??

[gardielo]

The product really needs to be in the big media centre such as Birmingham but one of the many limiting factors is suitable venues. Look at Sam's list and ask if today those locations would have venues to allow them to compete today. Not many I suspect.

[SamH]

Well in terms of venues I'd work it this way:

Worthing - obviously became Brighton, so you'd go back there
Birmingham - good venues but are they affordable on a regular basis? Birmingham seems to have struggled to retain a franchise long-term over the years.
Derby - no idea, but there must be a venue somewhere in the midlands suitable. Nottingham? Not sure its necessary though as we have Riders in this area anyway.
Thames valley - has more or less become Surrey Scorchers
Hemel and Watford - evolved into MK and now London

So if we could bring back a Brighton and Birmingham team the map wouldn't look drastically different now to how it did back then, of course we now have Plymouth, Bristol and Scotland represented too.

What about Leeds? There was a team there for a bit I think? Why didn't that work?

[dexter]

I think Leeds being ditched was a decision by the university. I would prefer university owned teams to support a strong NBL, and for BBL teams to be a bit more independent, albeit with strong relationships with the universities.

[SamH]

I just wonder if there would be scope for a Leeds team. Big city, good venues etc. Bit close to Sheffield and Manchester perhaps if we're trying to expand the reaches of the sport around the UK.

[dexter]

Sept 26, 2022 10:30:26 GMT SamH said:

I just wonder if there would be scope for a Leeds team. Big city, good venues etc. Bit close to Sheffield and Manchester perhaps if we're trying to expand the reaches of the sport around the UK.

The problem with Leeds is there isn't a suitable venue. Leeds Rhinos Netball Superleague team plays in Sheffield and Hull plus a big game at the Leeds Arena. They haven't played any games at the Leeds Beckett Sports Arena where Leeds Force used to play (seats 512) so I don't know if the university doesn't like to hire out the venue.

An ideal situation would be for Leeds Rhinos to launch a basketball team (they already have teams in netball, wheelchair basketball and wheelchair rugby) and to build their own indoor sports arena.

[tallerman]

Probably not a common opinion but I’d rather see a weaker 20 team league than a stronger 10 team league

[SamH]

Does Leeds not have the First Direct arena? Wouldn't that be suitable and quite a good venue?

20 teams would be interesting but the standard would definitely suffer then I think. You'd almost want to combine it with NBL1 then and operate a promotions/relegations system where perhaps the BBL is 16 teams.