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Post by mansfieldmike on Jul 21, 2022 16:56:08 GMT
Another Riders returnee.
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jul 21, 2022 18:15:10 GMT
Happy to see Adekoya return.
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Post by blueskies99 on Jul 21, 2022 19:06:32 GMT
Happy to see Adekoya return. Ditto |
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Post by isthaturinal on Jul 22, 2022 5:47:26 GMT
Defence sorted….
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jumbo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 58
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Post by jumbo on Jul 22, 2022 12:32:05 GMT
Personally I think he's one of the most under rated players in the league. Definitely someone who you have to watch to appreciate. Does so much more than the box score suggests. And his ability to play the small ball 5 is vital to us. DNH/Mo are a terrific pair but not the most mobile. He allows us to play big when he's at the 4 and small when he's at the 5.
Excellent defender. Very high BBIQ. Always in the right place at the right time. Sneaky good on the other end of the floor too. But plays within his role. Makes good decisions. If he could nudge his 3 point percentage back towards the 38% he shot the year before joining us then even better.
Best thing about him is his hands. Don't think I've ever seen a big guy with hands as quick as him. Billy had amazing hands. But can't think of anyone else even close. And that's a lot of years ago. His steals per minute puts him in the top 6 or 7 in the league. Only big guy even near the top of the charts. He's surrounded by guards who pressure the ball and players who play the passing lanes. Jubril gets almost all of his stripping guys at the rim with his super quick hands. May not be everyone's idea of exciting basketball but I love watching him
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Post by blueskies99 on Jul 22, 2022 13:09:38 GMT
Personally I think he's one of the most under rated players in the league. Definitely someone who you have to watch to appreciate. Does so much more than the box score suggests. And his ability to play the small ball 5 is vital to us. DNH/Mo are a terrific pair but not the most mobile. He allows us to play big when he's at the 4 and small when he's at the 5. Excellent defender. Very high BBIQ. Always in the right place at the right time. Sneaky good on the other end of the floor too. But plays within his role. Makes good decisions. If he could nudge his 3 point percentage back towards the 38% he shot the year before joining us then even better. Best thing about him is his hands. Don't think I've ever seen a big guy with hands as quick as him. Billy had amazing hands. But can't think of anyone else even close. And that's a lot of years ago. His steals per minute puts him in the top 6 or 7 in the league. Only big guy even near the top of the charts. He's surrounded by guards who pressure the ball and players who play the passing lanes. Jubril gets almost all of his stripping guys at the rim with his super quick hands. May not be everyone's idea of exciting basketball but I love watching him Totally agree... |
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Post by Stephen Abootman on Jul 22, 2022 16:09:28 GMT
Did we choose to use him at the 5 much last season? I mostly remember that happening in games where either DNH or Mo were absent and it was more a matter of necessity than choice.
Debateable how much this matters now but I'm not convinced last season's front court would perform terribly well against bigger, better opposition. Rim protection was pretty limited. The lack of mobility at the 5 spot is obvious and for me, we were effectively a little undersized at the 4. Build-wise Loving is virtually identical to William Lee but his game is far more perimeter orientated. Nowhere near as impactful in the paint. And Jubril is only 6'7" and a fairly average athlete. He's a solid player. Doesn't have any one outstanding skill in my mind but he's a useful, somewhat versatile, bits and pieces kind of contributor and a decent 'Brit' to bring off the bench. Not one I can pretend to be genuinely excited about though.
Quite possibly just the two American slots left to fill now and I'll be crossing my fingers that at least one of those is a player with the potential to make us a better team than we were last season.
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jumbo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 58
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Post by jumbo on Jul 22, 2022 19:21:27 GMT
Yeah definitely not extended runs at the 5. But he was able to step in as the back up when Darien went down and there were a few times later in the year when Rob went small, even if only for short bursts.
I think you're definitely right about bits and pieces player. But he's about as good as it gets for that role in this league.
I agree about the rim protection though. Loving occasionally provided some weak side help but he's not William Lee. And with 3 relatively ground bound bigs that's definitely something that we were missing. Not that it mattered too much last year but definitely a gap in the armour.
Out of interest...if you were running back the whole team from last year and had a straight choice between Lee and Loving who would you go for? I've always been a bit old fashioned and would go defence first. And I wasn't sure when we first signed Loving. But the spacing that he gives for Geno to do his thing just unlocks the offence.
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Post by irf on Jul 22, 2022 19:31:03 GMT
You read the last two posts and just have to admire proper basketball knowledge and analysis when you see it
Whereas I'm just a cheerleader!!
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Post by Stephen Abootman on Jul 23, 2022 1:30:41 GMT
Moving forward I would take Lee over Loving for sure. After a hot start, Loving faded quite a bit last season. From January onwards he can't have shot much better than 30% from 3P range. Wasn't that impactful in the playoffs. He is the better shooter but the difference isn't night and day. Outside of his one season in the G League, Lee has been a consistently solid perimeter shooter. Certainly good enough to keep the defense honest. And as a rebounder, defender, rim protector, he's far superior.
Lee is the better fit and the more uniquely skilled all round player.
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jumbo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 58
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Post by jumbo on Jul 26, 2022 7:24:44 GMT
I agree that I think Lee is a better all round player. Not so sure that he's as much better of a fit. No question he is on the defensive end. We definitely miss his rim protection. And Loving got bullied at times by bigger 3s and 4s. And I think Lee is a terrific rebounder. Was so good at winning 50/50 rebounds. But Loving shot 39% from 3 across the season. Lee shot 29%. He definitely dipped 2nd half of the season. And his value to the team is more tied to that one skill than anything else. But his ability to space the floor is big. Lee wasn't a terrible shooter but I think putting him next to Darien/Mo clogs things a bit. And gives teams the option to say we will leave Lee and let him shoot the 3. And if he knocks down 5 or 6 threes then so be it. But we'll take that over letting Geno run the show. Not so sure that you can do that with someone like Loving.
Not sure you could go wrong with either. And I'd be happy enough to see either return to Riders next year. But in general think a stretch 4 would be a good fit on this team. Obviously if you could get someone who ticks both sets of boxes then great. But that sort of player is probably only available to London.
Side note. Jubril actually did shoot 38% from deep across the season. The numbers I saw that were a bit lower were for league only.
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Post by Stephen Abootman on Jul 27, 2022 16:29:26 GMT
There's no question Loving is the better perimeter shooter, and that shooting threes is a bigger part of his game. But I don't think the difference is as big as the numbers you've quoted there make it sound. Given that Loving was lights out early doors last season, I'm assuming he shot a very high percentage in those boring group stage Cup games. Across the league and playoffs he shot 37%. Lee shot 34%. In college their 3P percentages were virtually identical. Admittedly Loving played a better level. Both have had sub 30% seasons in the G League, where lots of perfectly good BBL players have struggled. The year before he signed with us, Lee shot 33% in the German 2nd tier. He's not a standout shooter but he's just about good enough to qualify as a 'stretch 4' in my mind. Don't think he's a guy you're overly happy just giving that shot too.
It seems very likely the final American will be our starting 4. And obviously this player will need to have some sort of ability to shoot threes. But personally, I'd take a serviceable 3P shooter who excels in other areas over a better shooter who's something of a specialist.
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jumbo
Bench Warmer
Posts: 58
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Post by jumbo on Jul 27, 2022 18:31:40 GMT
Yeah I was a bit surprised they were as different across the whole season as 39/29. But also a bit surprised they are as similar across their careers.
No I wouldn't say Lee is someone you just stand and let him shoot. But if you're picking what you give up against us I think giving Lee the 3 is about the best option. Whereas with Loving I think it's a harder decision to make. I could definitely be convinced that the whole package that Lee brings outweighs whatever difference there is in the perimeter shooting though.
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