Do we need Terrestrial coverage?

[spacejammer]

I listened to the recent Drew and Jay Podcast where they briefly discussed in the episode the new league being on DAZN.

Although I think it's great we have free access to coverage and respect that the league is still new and more work is due to be done.

I am questioning without the league being on terrestrial tv like BBC or Sky Sports etc... I think it will be difficult for the league, current franchises and new franchises to grow without having a a showcase TV game.

Even if it is just 1 game a week like last season.
Having the 1 game a week plus re runs is probably better then not being implemented in the TV Sports schedule.

I wonder if they are planning or trying to get the games on TV come the championship or 2nd half of the season?

[skeg]

I agree totally.

It’s a catch 22. You have coverage of every game but effectively on a streaming feed which is great but only current fans are going to search out. It’s not going to bring in any new followers.

Remember when big time boxing was on itv in the ‘90’s? It would be talked about at school because it drew in all the casual and fair weather fans. Those same people won’t follow boxing now.

[tallerman]

People just don’t watch terrestrial to anymore. Basketball needs to appeal to the new age of people under 40. Streaming services are the way forward, it’s funny it was discussed on that pod when I last spoke to one of them they said they exclusively use streaming services now.

The 90s it worked because the to was the centre of the household, now it’s handheld devices. YouTube is the best way to show games but it needs gorilla advertising on TikTok, instagram and snapchat

[hayesboy]

Even though I agree times have changed if SBL was on BBC, ITV, C4, C5 it would benefit the sport.
Bearing in mind all of those offer the option to stream and watch via their platforms as well it would be the best of both worlds.

The BBC are missing a trick with basketball. They have lost almost every other sport and could brilliantly fill the void on a Saturday afternoon/early evening with basketball. It is very watchable for a casual viewer, easy to televise and the teams involved a desperate for coverage so very amenable.

[spacejammer]

I understand that times have changed particularly comes to how alot of households now watch things on apps like Netflix, Disney Plus and Prime etc...

But when it comes to sport I think it is one of the few things I would genuinely still watch on terrestrial tv with a tv licence.

I mean just got to look at football fans and Rugby fans for starters.
How many of them subscribe Sky Sports or TNT so they can watch the weekly games or mid week European fixtures?

That is why I think the league whilst it great we have it on DAZN or YouTube.
I believe you still need it on a main terrestrial station in order to attract new fans.

On the pod Jay Marriot even said he thought DAZN was just a boxing PPV sort of thing.
Which suggests DAZN might be a bit of a small scope if the league wants to expand its fan base.

[eagles18000]

if tv is so important in 'growing the game' why has the last 5 years of sky sports coverage not accomplished anything?

[SamH]

Also there's nothing wrong with growing an older audience is there? It may be harder to attract as they have got to a certain age without ever being interested in the sport but you can still get new converts who are over 40 and maybe just haven't seen much of it before. It doesn't have to just be the younger market to try and win over.

[foxtrot27]

It starts with the product. It’s just not good enough and the level of talent will not attract TV, sponsors or real basketball fans. That is the reality and that’s why broadcasters aren’t interested.

[spacejammer]

Oct 15, 2024 12:44:42 GMT eagles18000 said:

if tv is so important in 'growing the game' why has the last 5 years of sky sports coverage not accomplished anything?

Who said it hasn't accomplished anything?
Pretty sure after the 2 year deal expired they were able to get a deal for the following year.

777 may have been crooked but they did manage to get the league televised over in the states which also led to some teams getting investors from the US.
Also have you noticed any new regular fans around you come to the games?

Maybe it hasn't set the world alight but I like to think that the main stream coverage will have achieved some good things.

And even if the league doesn't go back onto terrestrial tv.
Then are we really expecting it grow via DAZN?

[cosbyrider]

A lot of sports have realised the need for having some coverage on free to air TV. Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket for example agreed deals to show live games on TV.

The problem they have found (it’s great for advertising and gets some awareness) is people aren’t stupid with what they shown. All three of those sports have larger TV deals which pick the better quality games and as a result you end up with mid table fixtures shown. People turn off

I’ve said before the key to a wider audience is pushing your national team and that needs a complete overhaul in the UK.

Tallerman’s YouTube and gorilla advertising is another method but I think you have acknowledged that gets a larger armchair audience which is more difficult to convert into match attendees

[spacejammer]

Oct 15, 2024 13:05:09 GMT cosbyrider said:

A lot of sports have realised the need for having some coverage on free to air TV. Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket for example agreed deals to show live games on TV.

The problem they have found (it’s great for advertising and gets some awareness) is people aren’t stupid with what they shown. All three of those sports have larger TV deals which pick the better quality games and as a result you end up with mid table fixtures shown. People turn off

I’ve said before the key to a wider audience is pushing your national team and that needs a complete overhaul in the UK.

Tallerman’s YouTube and gorilla advertising is another method but I think you have acknowledged that gets a larger armchair audience which is more difficult to convert into match attendees

With the main coverage you get the live game once a week but then also re runs of the same live game.
Which means you have a greater chance of attracting new fans who simply come across the league by accident when their flicking through the TV one day.

Whereas on an app your probably less likely to get someone come across it by accident as people will go on and look at what their looking for like a boxing or MMA fight.
Then most likely by pass the basketball.

[hayesboy]

I cannot find a link to the article I read but I recall a piece about how cricket particiapation has declined since the Ashes and other test matches went to SKY.
For me I would seperate the main channels BBC,ITV,C4 and (at a push) C5 from SKY and its content as well.

I agree the sport being on SKY will not have had the same impact as it would if it had been on the "main" free to air channels.

A lot of people got into wbasketball off the back of terrestial coverage. The old Forum was called "whatsbev" for a reason! Whether it was the NBA coverage on C4 or ITV or (for older farts like me) the old BBC coverage of british basketball on Grandstand and the NBA late night highlights show....it was critical.

[SamH]

Yes, me and lots of my friends all got into basketball in the mid 90s thanks to C4's NBA coverage, and that led to me going to my first BBL game not to mention starting to play it too and joining my local club. Then it moved to ITV2 and was awful, hence WhatsBev coming to fruition, but you still watched it because it was all there was! Now it's on TNT but not many people have that, I see no one at all is watching the WNBA finals given the lack of replies to that, and game 1 was one of the most exciting games I've ever seen, men or women - but because no one has TNT, no one saw it. The BBC with its few NBA games is a good start but its usually late at night and isn't on consistently enough to build a following.

[spacejammer]

Oct 15, 2024 15:00:09 GMT hayesboy said:

I cannot find a link to the article I read but I recall a piece about how cricket particiapation has declined since the Ashes and other test matches went to SKY.
For me I would seperate the main channels BBC,ITV,C4 and (at a push) C5 from SKY and its content as well.

I agree the sport being on SKY will not have had the same impact as it would if it had been on the "main" free to air channels.

A lot of people got into wbasketball off the back of terrestial coverage. The old Forum was called "whatsbev" for a reason! Whether it was the NBA coverage on C4 or ITV or (for older farts like me) the old BBC coverage of british basketball on Grandstand and the NBA late night highlights show....it was critical.

BBC was showing some NBA games not long back.
I dunno if that has gone anywhere at all.
Although even getting it on BBC, Itv or C4 would be a good alternative.

Although their not the same thing I was impressed with C4's recent coverage of the 2024 Paralympic games.
Which I felt got great viewing of the men's wheelchair basketball final when GB took on USA for the Gold medal game.

C4 also seem to be picking up the England FC friendlies and nation league games from time to time as well.
I think the SBL would fit in with that channel rather nicely if you ask me.

[cosbyrider]

Oct 15, 2024 15:00:09 GMT hayesboy said:

I cannot find a link to the article I read but I recall a piece about how cricket particiapation has declined since the Ashes and other test matches went to SKY.
For me I would seperate the main channels BBC,ITV,C4 and (at a push) C5 from SKY and its content as well.

I agree the sport being on SKY will not have had the same impact as it would if it had been on the "main" free to air channels.

A lot of people got into wbasketball off the back of terrestial coverage. The old Forum was called "whatsbev" for a reason! Whether it was the NBA coverage on C4 or ITV or (for older farts like me) the old BBC coverage of british basketball on Grandstand and the NBA late night highlights show....it was critical.

Your first paragraph is why the ECB pushed for the Hundred to get BBC coverage.

[LTfan]

Oct 15, 2024 16:23:10 GMT SamH said:

Yes, me and lots of my friends all got into basketball in the mid 90s thanks to C4's NBA coverage, and that led to me going to my first BBL game not to mention starting to play it too and joining my local club. Then it moved to ITV2 and was awful, hence WhatsBev coming to fruition, but you still watched it because it was all there was! Now it's on TNT but not many people have that, I see no one at all is watching the WNBA finals given the lack of replies to that, and game 1 was one of the most exciting games I've ever seen, men or women - but because no one has TNT, no one saw it. The BBC with its few NBA games is a good start but its usually late at night and isn't on consistently enough to build a following.

If we're talking specifically about the NBA, the 2025/26 season is likely going to be a game changer in the UK. 

As part of wider global deals with Amazon, Comcast and Disney, here in the UK the NBA will start an 11-year deal which will see more games than ever availble on Sky Sports and Amazon Prime. NBA League Pass will also move to Amazon Prime (but still as a premium subscription service). 

So with hundreds of games available via a Sky Sports subscription and an Amazon Prime subscription (plus League Pass for the avid fans) more people will have access to more NBA games than ever before, which should significantly increase the NBA's popularity - and hopefully basketball's popularity in general, here in the UK. 

[LTfan]

Some information on the DAZN deal that isn't widely known...

Personal opinion first... the DAZN deal is a great deal for fans, especially considering everything that happened over the summer. Fans are getting every game live and on-demand for free. And the league is getting paid a seven figure sum for the rights (and to cover production costs). BUT, the DAZN deal is going to do nothing to grown the league.

The DAZN deal is an exclusive one - both in the UK and around the world. So any suggestion that the league might want to try and get a game a week on Sky (or similar) isn't going to happen. Equally, any suggestion the league might want to try and get their showcase events - Trophy, Cup and Play-Off Finals on terrestrial television (or Sky, or similar) again isn't going to happen.
In terms of getting some coverage out there to a wider audience, the only option available is the DAZN YouTube channel. And I know DAZN's main interest in the SLB rights was to drive up subscribers numbers (to hopefully then get some new SLB subscribers to also then subscribe for some of their paid subscription options), so I doubt utilising their YouTube channel for SLB coverage is in their interest.
However, it wouldn't surprise me if an agreement is made between SLB and DAZN to also stream the showcase events - Trophy, Cup and Play-Off Finals on the DAZN YouTube channel to at least do something towards growing the leagues popularity. But even that would be a step down from recent seasons of having the showcase events on either BBC iPlayer and Sky Sports YouTube channel.

One final piece of info, DAZN was ultimately chosen by SLB over ITVX and Sky Sports. Apparently the most appealing offering from DAZN was them agreeing to having every game live and on-demand - something even Sky Sports weren't offering with their new Sky Sports+ streaming service. That and the fact they were able to offer a platform with a global reach. Oh, and the money they were offering wasn't bad either.

[foxtrot27]

Oct 16, 2024 12:17:04 GMT LTfan said:

Some information on the DAZN deal that isn't widely known...

Personal opinion first... the DAZN deal is a great deal for fans, especially considering everything that happened over the summer. Fans are getting every game live and on-demand for free. And the league is getting paid a seven figure sum for the rights (and to cover production costs). BUT, the DAZN deal is going to do nothing to grown the league.

The DAZN deal is an exclusive one - both in the UK and around the world. So any suggestion that the league might want to try and get a game a week on Sky (or similar) isn't going to happen. Equally, any suggestion the league might want to try and get their showcase events - Trophy, Cup and Play-Off Finals on terrestrial television (or Sky, or similar) again isn't going to happen.
In terms of getting some coverage out there to a wider audience, the only option available is the DAZN YouTube channel. And I know DAZN's main interest in the SLB rights was to drive up subscribers numbers (to hopefully then get some new SLB subscribers to also then subscribe for some of their paid subscription options), so I doubt utilising their YouTube channel for SLB coverage is in their interest.
However, it wouldn't surprise me if an agreement is made between SLB and DAZN to also stream the showcase events - Trophy, Cup and Play-Off Finals on the DAZN YouTube channel to at least do something towards growing the leagues popularity. But even that would be a step down from recent seasons of having the showcase events on either BBC iPlayer and Sky Sports YouTube channel.

One final piece of info, DAZN was ultimately chosen by SLB over ITVX and Sky Sports. Apparently the most appealing offering from DAZN was them agreeing to having every game live and on-demand - something even Sky Sports weren't offering with their new Sky Sports+ streaming service. That and the fact they were able to offer a platform with a global reach. Oh, and the money they were offering wasn't bad either.

Hmmm. So they take a deal with DAZN over Sky Sport who just signed an 11 year deal with the NBA. And Amazon also has same deal in UK. And you think thats a good thing..........shows how much you really understand about what's going on outside the BBL bubble. This market is being prepped for everything but "British" basketball right under your nose. 

[LTfan]

Oct 16, 2024 12:29:45 GMT foxtrot27 said:

Oct 16, 2024 12:17:04 GMT LTfan said:

Some information on the DAZN deal that isn't widely known...

Personal opinion first... the DAZN deal is a great deal for fans, especially considering everything that happened over the summer. Fans are getting every game live and on-demand for free. And the league is getting paid a seven figure sum for the rights (and to cover production costs). BUT, the DAZN deal is going to do nothing to grown the league.

The DAZN deal is an exclusive one - both in the UK and around the world. So any suggestion that the league might want to try and get a game a week on Sky (or similar) isn't going to happen. Equally, any suggestion the league might want to try and get their showcase events - Trophy, Cup and Play-Off Finals on terrestrial television (or Sky, or similar) again isn't going to happen.
In terms of getting some coverage out there to a wider audience, the only option available is the DAZN YouTube channel. And I know DAZN's main interest in the SLB rights was to drive up subscribers numbers (to hopefully then get some new SLB subscribers to also then subscribe for some of their paid subscription options), so I doubt utilising their YouTube channel for SLB coverage is in their interest.
However, it wouldn't surprise me if an agreement is made between SLB and DAZN to also stream the showcase events - Trophy, Cup and Play-Off Finals on the DAZN YouTube channel to at least do something towards growing the leagues popularity. But even that would be a step down from recent seasons of having the showcase events on either BBC iPlayer and Sky Sports YouTube channel.

One final piece of info, DAZN was ultimately chosen by SLB over ITVX and Sky Sports. Apparently the most appealing offering from DAZN was them agreeing to having every game live and on-demand - something even Sky Sports weren't offering with their new Sky Sports+ streaming service. That and the fact they were able to offer a platform with a global reach. Oh, and the money they were offering wasn't bad either.

Hmmm. So they take a deal with DAZN over Sky Sport who just signed an 11 year deal with the NBA. And Amazon also has same deal in UK. And you think thats a good thing..........shows how much you really understand about what's going on outside the BBL bubble. This market is being prepped for everything but "British" basketball right under your nose. 

I said the DAZN deal is a great deal for fans as they're getting every game live and on-demand for free.
But can't you tell from everything else I said in my post that beyond that I don't think it's a particularly good deal.

However, I'm not sure doing a deal with Sky Sports for one televised game a week and everything else on SLB's own YouTube channel - with the league having to pay for both the Sky and YouTube coverage production costs (because Sky were offering a fraction of what DAZN were offering) would have been a particularly good deal either in their current position.
Let's not forget, it was the Sky and YouTube coverage production costs more than anything else that ultimately led to the BBL collapsing. At least with the DAZN deal the production costs for every single game are covered, something neither the ITVX or Sky deals on the table offered, so the new league is not amassing a financial debt from day one. 

[dexter]

Oct 15, 2024 12:57:28 GMT spacejammer said:

Oct 15, 2024 12:44:42 GMT eagles18000 said:

if tv is so important in 'growing the game' why has the last 5 years of sky sports coverage not accomplished anything?

Who said it hasn't accomplished anything?
Pretty sure after the 2 year deal expired they were able to get a deal for the following year.

777 may have been crooked but they did manage to get the league televised over in the states which also led to some teams getting investors from the US.
Also have you noticed any new regular fans around you come to the games?

Maybe it hasn't set the world alight but I like to think that the main stream coverage will have achieved some good things.

And even if the league doesn't go back onto terrestrial tv.
Then are we really expecting it grow via DAZN?

I agree BBL under 777 Partners actually achieved a lot. I don't think they deserve any praise but the reality is all of this external investment came about on the back of that period. The investment that is coming now was very unlikely to happen 3 years ago.