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Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 18, 2024 14:56:22 GMT
Any new league should use the opportunity and perform a volte-face by using a scattering of imports and elevate some of our best of our younger British players who have been utterly overlooked in recent years and bring back some of the vets - Send out the SOS, you may be surprised who wants to get involved, play, whatever. Lean operations, low budgets across all teams and ensure all stakeholders feel they are on this journey. The abject failure over recent months, especially in recent days with fans is wholly unacceptable. Other comments here about lack of leadership or comms from the big clubs or anyone acting on their behalf as a spokesman are bang on, and the conspiracy of silence is reprehensible and a PR disaster so far. Hire someone to get in front of a camera if you can't do it yourself, get on the socials and start talking, even if you don't have a coherent plan. Fans will reward you with their support if they feel you are engaging. Tbf the clubs got together and made joint statements immediately At least give them a few more days to figure out what to do and say next Like we've all said there's no quick or easy fixes here They need to make sure knee jerk decisions or plans don't make things worse rather than better Probably need joint statements for a while longer yet as well Not acceptable. A hastily put together joint statement is weak given they all knew this was going pear shaped. There should be video and possibly a Q&A as to what happened and what the forward plan is. Anything short of that is just too weak and too late. Strong leadership is needed, not just the same old washed up BBL/BBF blokes. |
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Post by irf on Jun 18, 2024 15:11:05 GMT
Tbf the clubs got together and made joint statements immediately At least give them a few more days to figure out what to do and say next Like we've all said there's no quick or easy fixes here They need to make sure knee jerk decisions or plans don't make things worse rather than better Probably need joint statements for a while longer yet as well Not acceptable. A hastily put together joint statement is weak given they all knew this was going pear shaped. There should be video and possibly a Q&A as to what happened and what the forward plan is. Anything short of that is just too weak and too late. Strong leadership is needed, not just the same old washed up BBL/BBF blokes. How many days is it since the last statement (including the weekend) What more could you expect them to say this soon ? |
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Post by eagles18000 on Jun 18, 2024 16:10:47 GMT
some serious over-reaction (or is it pot-stirring?) going on here.
all that has been confirmed to have happened so far is that
a. the license has been removed (it expired in 2027 anyway)
b. Lions are likely to be bankrupt due to 777's travails.
No doubt another license will be issued and basketball will continue with the various clubs who didnt choose to bankrupt themselves in competing with the Lions at the forefront.
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Post by dexter on Jun 18, 2024 16:31:23 GMT
some serious over-reaction (or is it pot-stirring?) going on here. all that has been confirmed to have happened so far is that a. the license has been removed (it expired in 2027 anyway) b. Lions are likely to be bankrupt due to 777's travails. No doubt another license will be issued and basketball will continue with the various clubs who didnt choose to bankrupt themselves in competing with the Lions at the forefront. So you're not concerned? Uncertainty will make imports less likely to return. Fewer teams will probably mean fewer home games and therefore less income. ENBL have been regularly announcing the 2024/25 teams. So far no British teams. We're up to 10 out of 18 being announced. BBL games on Sky Sports and Sky Sports YouTube channel now seems pretty unlikely. I'm not saying Eagles won't survive, but the progress made last season will be lost and we're unlikely to see an All Star Eagles team, the likes of the 2023/24 roster, for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 18, 2024 16:44:20 GMT
some serious over-reaction (or is it pot-stirring?) going on here. all that has been confirmed to have happened so far is that a. the license has been removed (it expired in 2027 anyway) b. Lions are likely to be bankrupt due to 777's travails. No doubt another license will be issued and basketball will continue with the various clubs who didnt choose to bankrupt themselves in competing with the Lions at the forefront. So you're not concerned? Uncertainty will make imports less likely to return. Fewer teams will probably mean fewer home games and therefore less income. ENBL have been regularly announcing the 2024/25 teams. So far no British teams. We're up to 10 out of 18 being announced. BBL games on Sky Sports and Sky Sports YouTube channel now seems pretty unlikely. I'm not saying Eagles won't survive, but the progress made last season will be lost and we're unlikely to see an All Star Eagles team, the likes of the 2023/24 roster, for the foreseeable future. Sure, nothing to see here business as usual  . The word is out in the basketball community that the league is busted. Good luck with trying to repair that reputational damage. That will take a few years. No think a new license needs to be issued to the same group that stood by 777 til the end. No licence needed though. But trying to minimise the issue is a bit daft. Where is dunkster? |
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Post by eagles18000 on Jun 18, 2024 17:27:38 GMT
1. Imports want jobs. There are plenty of them. Not concerned at that at all. 2. There will be enough home games to run the clubs financially : the reality is that 18 is the magic number : last years some teams had 20 plus, simply too many. Less crazy back to backs. 3. Many of the clubs reputations within their own communities (where the £ has always come from) have never been higher. A lot of the regular fans were disillusioned with the manner in which the league was operated last year : I dont see 'reputational damage' having a tangible effect (if it ever has been a tangible thing) 4. TV who knows : plenty of channels, lots of hours to fill. 5. Eagles announced in March returning to ENBL newcastle-eagles.com/news/eagles-set-for-second-flight-into-europe/ : would be amazed if they went back on that : in fact if less domestic games it makes it even more of a no brainer. 6. eagles footfall last year was better than ever ; cant see any reason why there would be a substantial drop in budget l the advantage of a self-sustaining project is exactly that. |
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Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 18, 2024 17:46:36 GMT
1. Imports want jobs. There are plenty of them. Not concerned at that at all. 2. There will be enough home games to run the clubs financially : the reality is that 18 is the magic number : last years some teams had 20 plus, simply too many. Less crazy back to backs. 3. Many of the clubs reputations within their own communities (where the £ has always come from) have never been higher. A lot of the regular fans were disillusioned with the manner in which the league was operated last year : I dont see 'reputational damage' having a tangible effect (if it ever has been a tangible thing) 4. TV who knows : plenty of channels, lots of hours to fill. 5. Eagles announced in March returning to ENBL newcastle-eagles.com/news/eagles-set-for-second-flight-into-europe/ : would be amazed if they went back on that : in fact if less domestic games it makes it even more of a no brainer. 6. eagles footfall last year was better than ever ; cant see any reason why there would be a substantial drop in budget l the advantage of a self-sustaining project is exactly that. Eagles and Riders aside, average attendance less than 1000 a game, some 500-1000. Can’t see getting excited about that. You are correct about imports, there’s loads. None of any real quality imo. A league of 2-3 clubs won’t cut it mate. Good that you are a die hard tho! |
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Post by spacejammer on Jun 18, 2024 20:23:11 GMT
some serious over-reaction (or is it pot-stirring?) going on here. all that has been confirmed to have happened so far is that a. the license has been removed (it expired in 2027 anyway) b. Lions are likely to be bankrupt due to 777's travails. No doubt another license will be issued and basketball will continue with the various clubs who didnt choose to bankrupt themselves in competing with the Lions at the forefront. So you're not concerned? Uncertainty will make imports less likely to return. Fewer teams will probably mean fewer home games and therefore less income. ENBL have been regularly announcing the 2024/25 teams. So far no British teams. We're up to 10 out of 18 being announced. BBL games on Sky Sports and Sky Sports YouTube channel now seems pretty unlikely. I'm not saying Eagles won't survive, but the progress made last season will be lost and we're unlikely to see an All Star Eagles team, the likes of the 2023/24 roster, for the foreseeable future. I agree, whilst I'm not concerned their about my team going out of existence. What I am concerned about is how many teams will be around and the state of the league as well as the media coverage like the Sky deal evaporating. Outside Lions, Giants and Patriots a league should be salvageable. Although what sort of quality league is the question everyone is asking and will any EBL or SBL teams want to step up into the new BBL and can afford it. Two candidates that spring to mind would be Worthing and Derby possibly. And did any of 777 ludicrous ambitions like getting the league on TV stateside do enough to make investors or people care enough to want to save the league? From watching the ENBL and from listening to an interview with Paul Blake he said teams that faced the Eagles told him our league was going to fly past theirs in a few years. Although after this shambles I fear we're going to end up looking like a Semi Pro league. |
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Post by dexter on Jun 18, 2024 20:41:41 GMT
So you're not concerned? Uncertainty will make imports less likely to return. Fewer teams will probably mean fewer home games and therefore less income. ENBL have been regularly announcing the 2024/25 teams. So far no British teams. We're up to 10 out of 18 being announced. BBL games on Sky Sports and Sky Sports YouTube channel now seems pretty unlikely. I'm not saying Eagles won't survive, but the progress made last season will be lost and we're unlikely to see an All Star Eagles team, the likes of the 2023/24 roster, for the foreseeable future. I agree, whilst I'm not concerned their about my team going out of existence. What I am concerned about is how many teams will be around and the state of the league as well as the media coverage like the Sky deal evaporating. Outside Lions, Giants and Patriots a league should be salvageable. Although what sort of quality league is the question everyone is asking and will any EBL or SBL teams want to step up into the new BBL and can afford it. Two candidates that spring to mind would be Worthing and Derby possibly. And did any of 777 ludicrous ambitions like getting the league on TV stateside do enough to make investors or people care enough to want to save the league? From watching the ENBL and from listening to an interview with Paul Blake he said teams that faced the Eagles told him our league was going to fly past theirs in a few years. Although after this shambles I fear we're going to end up looking like a Semi Pro league. There is a good argument for having the BBL sitting directly above NBL1, with relegation and promotion, which would be optional and conditional. Hemel, Essex and Reading would all be good candidates to play in the BBL. If the standard of the league starts to get a bit high for some teams they can drop down to NBL rather than having to drop out of the league completely. Unless there is a sustainable plan for a fully professional league there is really no good reason to have a closed franchise league. |
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Post by irf on Jun 19, 2024 4:45:55 GMT
Not convinced there are enough reasons for NBL teams to want to start getting involved with the ex BBL clubs tbh
The opposite in fact
The NBL isn't broken. BBL is.
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Post by milehigh on Jun 19, 2024 5:03:17 GMT
A point on Pr announcements, there is no point just making announcements when there is no actual news to announce. Especially as, probably, we are still at a point where a lot of details for a "new BBl2 are still under development, and contracts have not been finalised and signed.
I'd much rather have a few weeks of silence and then a large announcement when the structures and contracts are in place.
The seven, non 777, clubs will be a solid foundation for a "new BBL", the important thing is to have afiscally sound and sustainable structure for the first couple of seasons, in a recovery phase, before moving into a period of sustainable growth and development.
Having a shorter season, that starts later in the year, might, help the finances of the clubs by reducing costs and making overseas players available at a lower price as the would be available between jobs in other countries.
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Post by irf on Jun 19, 2024 5:19:32 GMT
I do think that Plan A will be to try and start something the same time as normal (if they possibly can) as they will need cash (as normal) for these clubs to continue
It's not just players who need paying
There's backroom staff and big expensive arenas to fund
Any delay will be very expensive
Sports club finances always tend to be on the edge regardless of what's happened to BBL
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Post by dexter on Jun 19, 2024 7:40:15 GMT
Not convinced there are enough reasons for NBL teams to want to start getting involved with the ex BBL clubs tbh The opposite in fact The NBL isn't broken. BBL is. This is true but one of the biggest flaws of the current system is a struggling team can't just get relegated to NBL D1, which would have provided a better way for Leeds Force and Worcester Wolves to exit the BBL. |
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Post by irf on Jun 19, 2024 7:47:47 GMT
Not convinced there are enough reasons for NBL teams to want to start getting involved with the ex BBL clubs tbh The opposite in fact The NBL isn't broken. BBL is. This is true but one of the biggest flaws of the current system is a struggling team can't just get relegated to NBL D1, which would have provided a better way for Leeds Force and Worcester Wolves to exit the BBL. Like I say that's a BBL problem. NBL does fine without letting BBL clubs come in and upset their applecart |
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Post by donthatetheplayer on Jun 19, 2024 12:10:36 GMT
I can't see any valid reason why the BBL V2 doesn't align properly with D1 and the promo/relegation structure. The BBL has effectively eaten itself and perhaps will do again when greed, lack of oversight and arrogance get in the way. How a team that can habitually finish rock bottom or hover around the bottom spaces is good for the BBL or any club who clearly can't remain competitive isn't good for the game when there are clearly ambitious clubs in D1 who deserve their shot. Raising the franchise fee from £100K to £1m was ridiculous and bad for the game, hence why those D1 teams never bothered or couldn't. The elitist strangehold needs to be broken, which will showcase and improve our best British talent, another BBL failure. There is now a huge responsibility to get whatever emerges, right for the game, not just for those 7 or so clubs, however I worry that self interest amongst the 2-3 big clubs will once again win the day.
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Post by SamH on Jun 19, 2024 13:02:31 GMT
I think it would work if the financials and other factors such as venue standards, were to more closely align. It does mean dumbing down the BBL standards and finances, but perhaps in the current climate that's the best thing to do anyway. I think the BBL teams would need to adopt NBL1 rules and financial limits, but possibly in time the limits may increase if there is TV, sponsors etc involved which brings the financials up for everyone.
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Post by D44 on Jun 19, 2024 13:21:20 GMT
I'm not in favour of promotion/relegation (pretty pointless given the whole scale roster changes season to season) but for me NBL should be purely amateur for Uni teams and any team currently in the NBL that wants to step up and be fully professional should be allowed to as long they have a dedicated court (I.e not multi use), venue availability and suitable changing facilities. Surely it can't be that hard for the likes of COB Rockets, Derby, Reading etc to make some minor improvements so their venue is no less crappy than Bristols.
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Post by foxtrot27 on Jun 19, 2024 13:32:19 GMT
I'm not in favour of promotion/relegation (pretty pointless given the whole scale roster changes season to season) but for me NBL should be purely amateur for Uni teams and any team currently in the NBL that wants to step up and be fully professional should be allowed to as long they have a dedicated court (I.e not multi use), venue availability and suitable changing facilities. Surely it can't be that hard for the likes of COB Rockets, Derby, Reading etc to make some minor improvements so their venue is no less crappy than Bristols. I totally agree. The top end of the pro game should be separate. That said the financial metrics must make sense. Given that ticket sales will be the key economic driver and maybe F/B for clubs that control their own venues, I struggle to see how clubs with only 1000 in attendance will ever be able to cover costs of a real competition. With an avg ticket price of £10 and with 18-20 home games, these clubs will struggle to generate £200-300k in turnover. At that rate, these are just passion projects as no one seeking a return will ever invest hard cash. The top end need an entirely new approach of it wants to attract real investment. |
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Post by D44 on Jun 19, 2024 14:41:11 GMT
I'm not in favour of promotion/relegation (pretty pointless given the whole scale roster changes season to season) but for me NBL should be purely amateur for Uni teams and any team currently in the NBL that wants to step up and be fully professional should be allowed to as long they have a dedicated court (I.e not multi use), venue availability and suitable changing facilities. Surely it can't be that hard for the likes of COB Rockets, Derby, Reading etc to make some minor improvements so their venue is no less crappy than Bristols. I totally agree. The top end of the pro game should be separate. That said the financial metrics must make sense. Given that ticket sales will be the key economic driver and maybe F/B for clubs that control their own venues, I struggle to see how clubs with only 1000 in attendance will ever be able to cover costs of a real competition. With an avg ticket price of £10 and with 18-20 home games, these clubs will struggle to generate £200-300k in turnover. At that rate, these are just passion projects as no one seeking a return will ever invest hard cash. The top end need an entirely new approach of it wants to attract real investment. Its always going be a passion/community project, nobody is making money. But if Bristol can be competitive in a 750 seat baby blue Uni sportshall I don't see why some of the better NBL teams couldn't step up as soon as the barrier of the entry fee is removed. Just comes down to getting the right sponsors and infrastructure in place to make it happen. |
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Post by irf on Jun 19, 2024 14:49:14 GMT
From the above posts I'm still trying to see whats the attraction for the NBL clubs ?
Aren't the NBL clubs and their fans happy doing things like they do?
At the level they want to be at?
They don't aspire to be competing with Eagles or Riders?
Do they?
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. The word is out in the basketball community that the league is busted. Good luck with trying to repair that reputational damage. That will take a few years. No think a new license needs to be issued to the same group that stood by 777 til the end. No licence needed though. But trying to minimise the issue is a bit daft. 
