|
|
Post by dexter on Mar 1, 2024 0:45:53 GMT
I like this idea. It works mathematically. At the moment we have 10 teams, play eachother 4 times in the Championship regular season; 36 games each. If there were 5 teams in each conference; play teams in your conference 4 times and teams outside your conference twice, that is also 36 games each. Ireland could probably manage 5 teams. Belfast, Galway, Cork, North Dublin, South Dublin. The British teams could be more or less what we currently have. The main problem is the Irish teams won't be very good. The teams in Ireland would require investment in players. Sorry mate but your maths appear flawed to me. If we lose Lions and Plymouth and assume a buyer for the Manchester Franchise that's 8 current BBL teams. Also any team from anywhere in the Island of Ireland would face huge logistical problems and costs traveling to mainland Britain for away games. As would BBL teams traveling to them. That's quite apart from the huge investment needed to get these teams to a competitive standard. Who pays? This is an expansion scenario. There's no losing teams in this scenario. This is not the days away from administration thread. |
|
|
|
Post by johnjack on Mar 1, 2024 8:47:19 GMT
Sorry mate but your maths appear flawed to me. If we lose Lions and Plymouth and assume a buyer for the Manchester Franchise that's 8 current BBL teams. Also any team from anywhere in the Island of Ireland would face huge logistical problems and costs traveling to mainland Britain for away games. As would BBL teams traveling to them. That's quite apart from the huge investment needed to get these teams to a competitive standard. Who pays? Any team in Ireland are going to be on an aeroplane every weekend almost, if not multiple times. Guess they could be sponsored by Ryanair if they play their cards right. it increases costs for rest of the teams to (the smaller ones anyway as Newcastle already seem to fly/get grounded going to some places) |
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Mar 1, 2024 9:20:42 GMT
Sorry mate but your maths appear flawed to me. If we lose Lions and Plymouth and assume a buyer for the Manchester Franchise that's 8 current BBL teams. Also any team from anywhere in the Island of Ireland would face huge logistical problems and costs traveling to mainland Britain for away games. As would BBL teams traveling to them. That's quite apart from the huge investment needed to get these teams to a competitive standard. Who pays? Any team in Ireland are going to be on an aeroplane every weekend almost, if not multiple times. Guess they could be sponsored by Ryanair if they play their cards right. it increases costs for rest of the teams to (the smaller ones anyway as Newcastle already seem to fly/get grounded going to some places) The Irish teams would have 10 regular season games in Britain. They could play 2 games on one trip. So that's 5 trips to Britain in the regular season. That's not almost every weekend. That's just 5 weekends. |
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Mar 1, 2024 11:03:44 GMT
Just for the record, I'm not saying we should have a British and Irish league. I'm just saying how the BBL could expand. In reality I think it's about to collapse. And even if it isn't about to collapse I don't think there's much potential for growth within Britain. It's good to see the NBL being competitive and having fans but I don't think any of those teams would make the BBL better.
We don't need a British and Irish league. ENBL is the league for British teams that want to add some cross-border games.
|
|
|
|
Post by mac on Mar 1, 2024 13:01:48 GMT
Sorry mate but your maths appear flawed to me. If we lose Lions and Plymouth and assume a buyer for the Manchester Franchise that's 8 current BBL teams. Also any team from anywhere in the Island of Ireland would face huge logistical problems and costs traveling to mainland Britain for away games. As would BBL teams traveling to them. That's quite apart from the huge investment needed to get these teams to a competitive standard. Who pays? This is an expansion scenario. There's no losing teams in this scenario. This is not the days away from administration thread. Hang on, how can you call it an expansion scenario when you propose losing two or three established BBL teams? That aside, my point is still valid. This would cost many more £millions than 777 Partners ever put in. You've conceded that the Ireland teams would need financial support, where does it come from? |
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Mar 1, 2024 13:10:15 GMT
This is an expansion scenario. There's no losing teams in this scenario. This is not the days away from administration thread. Hang on, how can you call it an expansion scenario when you propose losing two or three established BBL teams? That aside, my point is still valid. This would cost many more £millions than 777 Partners ever put in. You've conceded that the Ireland teams would need financial support, where does it come from? Where did I propose losing 3 teams? In a different thread about the end being nigh, not in this conversation. And I didn't propose losing them, I just said that I think they will be lost when 777 Partners pulls out or fold completely. This conversation is about expanding the league. The other conversation is about the league's impending doom. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Mar 1, 2024 13:15:36 GMT
The Irish/overseas appears to work for both Ice Hockey & Rugby League. It would be doable with the right support
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Mar 1, 2024 13:21:01 GMT
The Irish/overseas appears to work for both Ice Hockey & Rugby League. It would be doable with the right support In rugby union the Irish play in a league with teams in Scotland, Wales, Italy and South Africa. It is doable if there is enough money in the sport. Of course there isn't that money basketball in the British Isles because there aren't tens of thousands of people watching clubs and national teams. |
|
|
|
Post by mac on Mar 1, 2024 13:45:49 GMT
Hang on, how can you call it an expansion scenario when you propose losing two or three established BBL teams? That aside, my point is still valid. This would cost many more £millions than 777 Partners ever put in. You've conceded that the Ireland teams would need financial support, where does it come from? Where did I propose losing 3 teams? In a different thread about the end being nigh, not in this conversation. And I didn't propose losing them, I just said that I think they will be lost when 777 Partners pulls out or fold completely. This conversation is about expanding the league. The other conversation is about the league's impending doom. In the part I originally quoted where you wrote, "I like this idea. It works mathematically. At the moment we have 10 teams, play eachother 4 times in the Championship regular season; 36 games each. If there were 5 teams in each conference; play teams in your conference 4 times and teams outside your conference twice, that is also 36 games each.
Ireland could probably manage 5 teams. Belfast, Galway, Cork, North Dublin, South Dublin. The British teams could be more or less what we currently have. The main problem is the Irish teams won't be very good. The teams in Ireland would require investment in players." Bold added by me.
In the bit I've added bold to, 4 games in your conference(x4) = 16 games. 5 games in the other conference (x2) = 10 games. 26 games in total. To get to 36 you still need all 10 teams playing each other 4 times. I'm not trying to be clever or catch you out, it just doesn't make sense to me. I appreciate you're just chucking ideas about.  |
|
|
|
Post by milehigh on Mar 1, 2024 14:11:39 GMT
The financial demands, and the logistics, of adding teams in Ireland would be horrendous, teams would have to fly in the day before a game and it is unlikely they would be able to fly home the day of the game, so you have the costs of flights, hotels and subsistance for about 20 people for each game involving an Irish side.
There will also be tax and work permit issues dealing with teams in the Irish Republic.
We may need a year, or more of a reduced "New BBL" before expansion becomes viable.
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter on Mar 1, 2024 15:06:55 GMT
Where did I propose losing 3 teams? In a different thread about the end being nigh, not in this conversation. And I didn't propose losing them, I just said that I think they will be lost when 777 Partners pulls out or fold completely. This conversation is about expanding the league. The other conversation is about the league's impending doom. In the part I originally quoted where you wrote, "I like this idea. It works mathematically. At the moment we have 10 teams, play eachother 4 times in the Championship regular season; 36 games each. If there were 5 teams in each conference; play teams in your conference 4 times and teams outside your conference twice, that is also 36 games each.
Ireland could probably manage 5 teams. Belfast, Galway, Cork, North Dublin, South Dublin. The British teams could be more or less what we currently have. The main problem is the Irish teams won't be very good. The teams in Ireland would require investment in players." Bold added by me.
In the bit I've added bold to, 4 games in your conference(x4) = 16 games. 5 games in the other conference (x2) = 10 games. 26 games in total. To get to 36 you still need all 10 teams playing each other 4 times. I'm not trying to be clever or catch you out, it just doesn't make sense to me. I appreciate you're just chucking ideas about. 3 conferences. 5 teams in each conference. Ireland conference (Belfast, Galway, Cork, North Dublin, South Dublin). Northern Conference (Gladiators, Eagles, Giants, Phoenix, Sharks). Southern Conference (Riders, Lions, Scorchers, Flyers, Patriots). Eagles for example play each team in their conference 4 times (4x4 = 16) And they play the teams not in their conference twice (10 x 2 = 20). 16 + 20 = 36 They would have 5 games in Ireland which they would probably do in 3 separate trips. On the plus side they will only have to go to Plymouth once. Of course this is all fantasy because these 5 professional Irish teams don't exist. It's just an idea. It's not impossible but it would require a big injection of investment in Irish basketball. Maybe from some American billionaire who identifies as Irish. |
|
|
|
Post by SamH on Mar 1, 2024 15:49:35 GMT
Is it viable to add the 7 or 8 remaining teams to the NBL D1 group, expanding it to something more meaty. You might think that's unfair but if the BBL teams are going to have less money next season, then they might find the rosters they field are more in line with the NBL teams anyway, and they'd have to comply with the NBL roster regulations of course. I'd rather see an expanded NBL D1 than a really small BBL.
|
|
|
|
Post by mac on Mar 1, 2024 15:54:07 GMT
Now I get it, many thanks. Just for a bit of fun I checked out the Irish Superleague. There's quite a few Uni and College clubs with some outstanding names. They also appear to stream their games for free. I'll check it out when I get a minute. ireland.basketball/2022-23-league-tables-insuremyvan.ie-super-leagueEdit, not free, almost €60 yearly or €10 per month. |
|
|
|
Post by mac on Mar 1, 2024 16:13:13 GMT
Is it viable to add the 7 or 8 remaining teams to the NBL D1 group, expanding it to something more meaty. You might think that's unfair but if the BBL teams are going to have less money next season, then they might find the rosters they field are more in line with the NBL teams anyway, and they'd have to comply with the NBL roster regulations of course. I'd rather see an expanded NBL D1 than a really small BBL. It's a thought but that would mean North and South Conferences with 20-21 teams in the league. How welcoming the NBL would be is also debatable. They'd surely want binding assurances that they wouldn't break away again. Couple of derbies thrown in, Eagles v Newcastle Uni and Riders v Loughborough. I was at Newcastle Uni earlier in the week. Not much in the way of spectator facilities. Loughborough far better. |
|
|
|
Post by cosbyrider on Mar 1, 2024 18:40:58 GMT
Is it viable to add the 7 or 8 remaining teams to the NBL D1 group, expanding it to something more meaty. You might think that's unfair but if the BBL teams are going to have less money next season, then they might find the rosters they field are more in line with the NBL teams anyway, and they'd have to comply with the NBL roster regulations of course. I'd rather see an expanded NBL D1 than a really small BBL. It's a thought but that would mean North and South Conferences with 20-21 teams in the league. How welcoming the NBL would be is also debatable. They'd surely want binding assurances that they wouldn't break away again. Couple of derbies thrown in, Eagles v Newcastle Uni and Riders v Loughborough. I was at Newcastle Uni earlier in the week. Not much in the way of spectator facilities. Loughborough far better. Those derbies are essentially the same organisations. Particularly on the coaching side of things |
|
|
|
Post by SamH on Mar 2, 2024 11:46:00 GMT
Maybe they could merge then? And in D1 there's no north and south, its just one division. I don't think that would need changing. If football can have 20 team leagues why not basketball. Far more variety in the schedule that way. I like to think by expanding it and adding well established teams, the overall standard of the league would improve, more money would come in from ticket sales, sponsors, etc so it would benefit the current teams as well. It might have some early teething issues and take a few years to see growth and development. The teams not really cut out for it would probably end up moving down to D2. But you could also retain promotion and relegation. I think it could be good.
|
|
