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Post by spacejammer on Jun 28, 2023 23:20:13 GMT
"BBL should focus on getting full arenas" eagles are getting full arenas : have to figure that played a significant part in the decision to play ENBL. Maybe its not flushing money down the toilet if actually playing games is making money ......... Exactly and someone said to me earlier today when it comes to the Eagles our chairman Paul Blake isn't exactly one for taking a risk unless he see's it being beneficial. Whilst our team may not be as dominant on the court like we used to in the recent years. We still manage to attract good crowds most game nights and the Eagles have managed to maintain themselves as a steady and stable club who now also own their own arena. To which we have full control over when we play, train and for external events like the boxing and the dinosaur event on this weekend the team will be profiting from. So given how he has kept the team going and stood by the team for all these years I don't believe he would have entered the Eagles into this if he didn't see it being somewhat beneficial to the club and organisation. I also just read the article on the BCL vs the EuroCup and thought it was quite a nice read. I think one of the main differences it highlights is BCL is competitive throughout as the games are fewer and you could be knocked out by Christmas if you don't do well. Whereas the Eurocup whilst it guarantees you a full season campaign. In a way it is similar to what the BBL Cup used to be where 2 groups of 10 are fighting it out over the course of the season. And in the end on 2 are eliminated and it's not as exclusive meaning it is always the same teams. Whereas BCL and this new league teams can enter as they please even from minor leagues. When you look it that way it does make it sound interesting as you never know which teams are going to make a go at it. |
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Post by Stephen Abootman on Jun 29, 2023 14:37:15 GMT
Perhaps you should look at your own clubs crowds and lack of ambition before attempting to change the entire landscape of European basketball 😂 I'm afraid I have no more ability to influence what goes on at my club than I do to 'change the landscape of European basketball.' And I've criticized Riders countless times in the past for their inability/unwillingness to have a proper go at Europe. If you think pulling in crowds of 2,000+ justifies Eagles playing in Europe that's your call. I realise this is pretty outlandish but I think it's supposed to be about being good at basketball. And a team that's finished bottom three in the BBL two years running clearly isn't very good at basketball. I'm afraid in my view, Eagles have absolutely no business whatsoever representing the league in Europe at this moment in time. Even in a relatively minor competition like the ENBL. I mean what's next seriously? Are Patriots gonna have a go? Scorchers? Would it be a good advert for the BBL having teams of that quality involved? It's bloody ridiculous. |
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Post by SamH on Jun 29, 2023 14:56:45 GMT
I'm surprised there aren't certain entry requirements to hit though, such as finishing in a top 3 or 4 place in your domestic league. You would think they wouldn't just want any old teams entering who might not be competitive as it would dilute the quality of the competition and lead to blowouts which are of little interest to the fans. So I am surprised Eagles are allowed in just because they want to take part, having had a poor season here.
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Post by D44 on Jun 29, 2023 18:09:50 GMT
I'm surprised there aren't certain entry requirements to hit though, such as finishing in a top 3 or 4 place in your domestic league. You would think they wouldn't just want any old teams entering who might not be competitive as it would dilute the quality of the competition and lead to blowouts which are of little interest to the fans. So I am surprised Eagles are allowed in just because they want to take part, having had a poor season here. I'd say the other way around. There should be minimum infrastructure and budget requirements like there are in other European competitions. Most players only ever sign one year contracts anyways, so I don't see previous years league position as much of an indication of how good a team may or may not be the following year. |
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Post by erj14 on Jun 30, 2023 21:08:49 GMT
It's maddening isn't it. I realise I'm not exactly going to endear myself to fans of other clubs with these comments but next season, the BBL will be represented in Europe by... A perennial mid table side that's won two domestic trophies in 25 years. A team that plays in an 800 capacity college gym. And a team that has been legitimately one of the worst in the league two years running. But by the looks of it, no Riders. It would be a bit like having... . Feel like you're cherrypicking your arguments a bit for each team there. You're using Eagles lack of on court success in the past two seasons, while ignoring the fact they have the largest (still growing) fanbase in the league, good infrastructure and a recentish history of success. You then ignore the fact that Flyers and Glads finished 3rd and 4th last season and attack their lack of infrastructure (Flyers) and lack of historic success (Glads). Ultimately, these three teams are taking the plunge and giving it a go. I'm sure Leicester would've been welcomed with open arms but are struggling to fill their venue for BBL games at the moment. No way is it going to be a revenue generator for them, they just don't have the fanbase. Despite a 5 year period of sustained success. They need to address that and build their audience base before heading in to Europe. Whether you like it or not, Eagles can fill a 3,000 seat arena most weeks despite the on court product being a shitshow for the past 2 seasons. They have a real chance of actually generating revenue from a European campaign, so why shouldn't they do it? Glads (especially) and Flyers are both up and coming teams with decent investment behind them, they absolutely deserve the chance to have a crack at it. To me, it seems like part of their plan to grow. I'm kind of staggered that having 4 teams playing in European competition is seen as bad thing from some quarters. |
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Post by spacejammer on Jun 30, 2023 23:11:36 GMT
It's maddening isn't it. I realise I'm not exactly going to endear myself to fans of other clubs with these comments but next season, the BBL will be represented in Europe by... A perennial mid table side that's won two domestic trophies in 25 years. A team that plays in an 800 capacity college gym. And a team that has been legitimately one of the worst in the league two years running. But by the looks of it, no Riders. It would be a bit like having... . Feel like you're cherrypicking your arguments a bit for each team there. You're using Eagles lack of on court success in the past two seasons, while ignoring the fact they have the largest (still growing) fanbase in the league, good infrastructure and a recentish history of success. You then ignore the fact that Flyers and Glads finished 3rd and 4th last season and attack their lack of infrastructure (Flyers) and lack of historic success (Glads). Ultimately, these three teams are taking the plunge and giving it a go. I'm sure Leicester would've been welcomed with open arms but are struggling to fill their venue for BBL games at the moment. No way is it going to be a revenue generator for them, they just don't have the fanbase. Despite a 5 year period of sustained success. They need to address that and build their audience base before heading in to Europe. Whether you like it or not, Eagles can fill a 3,000 seat arena most weeks despite the on court product being a shitshow for the past 2 seasons. They have a real chance of actually generating revenue from a European campaign, so why shouldn't they do it? Glads (especially) and Flyers are both up and coming teams with decent investment behind them, they absolutely deserve the chance to have a crack at it. To me, it seems like part of their plan to grow. I'm kind of staggered that having 4 teams playing in European competition is seen as bad thing from some quarters. Wow what a comment. 👏 Whilst I can't exactly comment on the Leicester fan base critique. Your absolutely spot on about our fan base being a good reason for us giving Europe a go and 4 teams competing in Europe regardless of the level I see as a really positive thing. Although interestingly from what I have seen so far it seems whether you agree or disagree with the teams heading into Europe. I think everybody has contributed a valid point to this discussion and is in someway right in there opinion. I don't think I have ever found myself in a discussion whether I have found myself agreeing with literally everyone on both sides of the argument. |
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Post by massiveridersfan on Jul 1, 2023 16:51:26 GMT
I find it baffling that Riders struggle to sell out our arena. We've had enormous success and yet it's only happened a few times in recent seasons. My only conclusion is that the arena itself is in an infuriating location with no decent parking facilities. Many people in Leicester aren't even aware of the arena. I've given up trying to explain where it is sited. They certainly couldn't locate it on a map if you gave them a pin. It is virtually invisible and tucked away at the back of an industrial estate. The notion that we have a football team, a rugby team and a cricket team so they detract from numbers coming to watch basketball doesn't hold up in my opinion. Newcastle has plenty of other sporting venues too but Eagles are thriving in terms of attendance. So, the question remains - what can Riders do to boost numbers? It isn't expensive to buy tickets so that argument doesn't convince.
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Post by Stephen Abootman on Jul 1, 2023 17:00:03 GMT
Feel like you're cherrypicking your arguments a bit for each team there. You're using Eagles lack of on court success in the past two seasons, while ignoring the fact they have the largest (still growing) fanbase in the league, good infrastructure and a recentish history of success. You then ignore the fact that Flyers and Glads finished 3rd and 4th last season and attack their lack of infrastructure (Flyers) and lack of historic success (Glads). Ultimately, these three teams are taking the plunge and giving it a go. I'm sure Leicester would've been welcomed with open arms but are struggling to fill their venue for BBL games at the moment. No way is it going to be a revenue generator for them, they just don't have the fanbase. Despite a 5 year period of sustained success. They need to address that and build their audience base before heading in to Europe. Whether you like it or not, Eagles can fill a 3,000 seat arena most weeks despite the on court product being a shitshow for the past 2 seasons. They have a real chance of actually generating revenue from a European campaign, so why shouldn't they do it? Glads (especially) and Flyers are both up and coming teams with decent investment behind them, they absolutely deserve the chance to have a crack at it. To me, it seems like part of their plan to grow. I'm kind of staggered that having 4 teams playing in European competition is seen as bad thing from some quarters. Not really. All I was doing there was pointing out the absurdity of having various other teams (including what is currently one of the very worst) represent a league in Europe but not the second best team. Wouldn't happen in other sports would it? To be clear here, whilst Riders are, in my view, far and away the most suitable team outside of London to represent the BBL in Europe right now, I don't begrudge Gladiators or Flyers their opportunities. I think both just about did enough last season to merit their spots. Flyers venue obviously isn't wonderful. And I do think they might struggle. I think they probably overachieved a bit last season. And it's looking like they're going to have a pretty similar sort of roster this time around, minus probably their two best players. But the bottom line is they were a decent enough side last season to justify giving this a go, as were Gladiators. Eagles definitely were not. Professional sport is first and fore mostly about competition. It's about performance. It's about winning. Presentation is secondary. And there are massive question marks right now over Eagles' ability to put a winning product on the floor. The last couple of years have been off the scales terrible. They've got a coach who's new to coaching club basketball at this level and I think it's fair to say had a pretty rough inauguration last season. A roster that will have to be completely dismantled and built again more or less from scratch. Yes they have a nice venue and the best established fan base in the league. No arguments from me there. But they aren't going to be a great advert for the BBL if they're getting blown out of the building by some obscure Estonian side. No matter how many people are sat in the stands. |
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Post by spacejammer on Jul 1, 2023 20:22:09 GMT
Feel like you're cherrypicking your arguments a bit for each team there. You're using Eagles lack of on court success in the past two seasons, while ignoring the fact they have the largest (still growing) fanbase in the league, good infrastructure and a recentish history of success. You then ignore the fact that Flyers and Glads finished 3rd and 4th last season and attack their lack of infrastructure (Flyers) and lack of historic success (Glads). Ultimately, these three teams are taking the plunge and giving it a go. I'm sure Leicester would've been welcomed with open arms but are struggling to fill their venue for BBL games at the moment. No way is it going to be a revenue generator for them, they just don't have the fanbase. Despite a 5 year period of sustained success. They need to address that and build their audience base before heading in to Europe. Whether you like it or not, Eagles can fill a 3,000 seat arena most weeks despite the on court product being a shitshow for the past 2 seasons. They have a real chance of actually generating revenue from a European campaign, so why shouldn't they do it? Glads (especially) and Flyers are both up and coming teams with decent investment behind them, they absolutely deserve the chance to have a crack at it. To me, it seems like part of their plan to grow. I'm kind of staggered that having 4 teams playing in European competition is seen as bad thing from some quarters. Not really. All I was doing there was pointing out the absurdity of having various other teams (including what is currently one of the very worst) represent a league in Europe but not the second best team. Wouldn't happen in other sports would it? To be clear here, whilst Riders are, in my view, far and away the most suitable team outside of London to represent the BBL in Europe right now, I don't begrudge Gladiators or Flyers their opportunities. I think both just about did enough last season to merit their spots. Flyers venue obviously isn't wonderful. And I do think they might struggle. I think they probably overachieved a bit last season. And it's looking like they're going to have a pretty similar sort of roster this time around, minus probably their two best players. But the bottom line is they were a decent enough side last season to justify giving this a go, as were Gladiators. Eagles definitely were not. Professional sport is first and fore mostly about competition. It's about performance. It's about winning. Presentation is secondary. And there are massive question marks right now over Eagles' ability to put a winning product on the floor. The last couple of years have been off the scales terrible. They've got a coach who's new to coaching club basketball at this level and I think it's fair to say had a pretty rough inauguration last season. A roster that will have to be completely dismantled and built again more or less from scratch. Yes they have a nice venue and the best established fan base in the league. No arguments from me there. But they aren't going to be a great advert for the BBL if they're getting blown out of the building by some obscure Estonian side. No matter how many people are sat in the stands. Again I sort of agree with you except the part where you believe we're going to get blown out. From my understanding in this competition the teams who entered don't have to qualify so we could be facing a champion from a league or we could be playing a team that is a lot lower. Plus if their a champion or a strong team from a poorer league then perhaps even the Eagles or Surrey could beat them. Extreme scenario I know but there are some domestic leagues that aren't as strong as the BBL such as Ireland or Iceland. Also last season yes the Eagles finished 8th and we had some bad games. But I wouldn't exactly say we were a team of chumps and even when we lost some of those losses were close. Not only that apart from London we did manage to defeat both the Flyers and Glads who are also going for Europe. And who can forget my personal highlight of the season as well we also defeated Leicester Riders once last season. To which I know they had some travel disruption before which made them late to arrive to the arena. However in the game I swear they were leading at halftime yet we still managed to comeback and defeat them fairly convincingly if my memory serves me correct. I also reckon one of the home games this past we would have also defeated London Lions if the officiating hadn't been so abysmal in the 4th Quarter. So whilst I understand your reason for why a team in 8th place shouldn't go for Europe and it might be a step to soon for us. I have absolutely no fear that when the time comes we will rise to the challenge. And win or lose I'm sure we won't embarrass or let the BBL down. If anything if most the Eagles faithful are able to make it to the mid week home match. I sure which ever teams show up are going to be incredible surprised to see a club from the British Basketball League be so well backed and supportive. And who also in a non threatening way it might even intimidate the away team if they think they're going to be turning up to a quiet house only to be greeting by a loud and proud audience! |
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Post by erj14 on Jul 1, 2023 20:41:25 GMT
Feel like you're cherrypicking your arguments a bit for each team there. You're using Eagles lack of on court success in the past two seasons, while ignoring the fact they have the largest (still growing) fanbase in the league, good infrastructure and a recentish history of success. You then ignore the fact that Flyers and Glads finished 3rd and 4th last season and attack their lack of infrastructure (Flyers) and lack of historic success (Glads). Ultimately, these three teams are taking the plunge and giving it a go. I'm sure Leicester would've been welcomed with open arms but are struggling to fill their venue for BBL games at the moment. No way is it going to be a revenue generator for them, they just don't have the fanbase. Despite a 5 year period of sustained success. They need to address that and build their audience base before heading in to Europe. Whether you like it or not, Eagles can fill a 3,000 seat arena most weeks despite the on court product being a shitshow for the past 2 seasons. They have a real chance of actually generating revenue from a European campaign, so why shouldn't they do it? Glads (especially) and Flyers are both up and coming teams with decent investment behind them, they absolutely deserve the chance to have a crack at it. To me, it seems like part of their plan to grow. I'm kind of staggered that having 4 teams playing in European competition is seen as bad thing from some quarters. Not really. All I was doing there was pointing out the absurdity of having various other teams (including what is currently one of the very worst) represent a league in Europe but not the second best team. Wouldn't happen in other sports would it? To be clear here, whilst Riders are, in my view, far and away the most suitable team outside of London to represent the BBL in Europe right now, I don't begrudge Gladiators or Flyers their opportunities. I think both just about did enough last season to merit their spots. Flyers venue obviously isn't wonderful. And I do think they might struggle. I think they probably overachieved a bit last season. And it's looking like they're going to have a pretty similar sort of roster this time around, minus probably their two best players. But the bottom line is they were a decent enough side last season to justify giving this a go, as were Gladiators. Eagles definitely were not. Professional sport is first and fore mostly about competition. It's about performance. It's about winning. Presentation is secondary. And there are massive question marks right now over Eagles' ability to put a winning product on the floor. The last couple of years have been off the scales terrible. They've got a coach who's new to coaching club basketball at this level and I think it's fair to say had a pretty rough inauguration last season. A roster that will have to be completely dismantled and built again more or less from scratch. Yes they have a nice venue and the best established fan base in the league. No arguments from me there. But they aren't going to be a great advert for the BBL if they're getting blown out of the building by some obscure Estonian side. No matter how many people are sat in the stands. I agree, Eagles could potentially be embarrassing in Europe next year unless they get their act together. Another summer like last season and they may as well not bother turning up. I'm hoping that won't be the case. It probably says more about the ENBL and its obviously low entry requirements. I'd be disappointed if I was a Leciester fan, seeing all these other teams going in to Europe. They've just got to find a way to start packing that arena out. |
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Post by baldeagle on Jul 2, 2023 8:41:37 GMT
I am hopeful that many lessons will have been learnt and that the on-court product at Newcastle will be significantly better in the season ahead, accepting that in all likelihood all BBL competitions will be a race for second place behind London.
One thing I am sure of is that Messrs Blake and Steutel will only have entered the ENBL after considerable thought and in the expectation that it will be for the long-term benefit of the club. One thing missed by some contributors on this thread is that Newcastle would have been the obvious British club to have been competing in Europe for most of the last 15 years but declined the opportunity to do so because of a cautious approach to financial health and a desire to get their internal infrastructure (stadium etc) right first. That at least deserves some credit. And I’m not in any way knocking other clubs who have taken a different approach.
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Post by dexter on Jul 2, 2023 11:51:44 GMT
I am hopeful that many lessons will have been learnt and that the on-court product at Newcastle will be significantly better in the season ahead, accepting that in all likelihood all BBL competitions will be a race for second place behind London. One thing I am sure of is that Messrs Blake and Steutel will only have entered the ENBL after considerable thought and in the expectation that it will be for the long-term benefit of the club. One thing missed by some contributors on this thread is that Newcastle would have been the obvious British club to have been competing in Europe for most of the last 15 years but declined the opportunity to do so because of a cautious approach to financial health and a desire to get their internal infrastructure (stadium etc) right first. That at least deserves some credit. And I’m not in any way knocking other clubs who have taken a different approach. Building sustainability definitely does deserve credit. I would go as far as to say caution and sustainability are the most underrated virtues when it comes to building a professional sports team. And it is credit to the Eagles fans that they have still turned out and supported their club when the performances have not been great. |
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voise
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Post by voise on Jul 2, 2023 13:17:44 GMT
Would have liked to see Durham (the player!) back and in European competition. Same with King and JWG at Flyers.
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Post by blueskies99 on Jul 2, 2023 19:47:22 GMT
I will be fascinated to see how the Eagles (and to some extent, the other European entry teams) cope with the following….
How do you get people to attend a weekly European game in numbers when the next day is a school/work day?
How do you get people to pay for two games a week?
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Post by spacejammer on Jul 2, 2023 20:16:13 GMT
I will be fascinated to see how the Eagles (and to some extent, the other European entry teams) cope with the following…. How do you get people to attend a weekly European game in numbers when the next day is a school/work day? How do you get people to pay for two games a week? I will be fascinated as well to see how we cope with that. And I am wondering whether these games will be included in the season ticket or not. I believe London had a separate charge although I don't know what Leicester did for their Eurogames. I suppose it all comes down to how the Eagles market it I'm guessing and whether the tip off time will change for these games? Again one thing we tend to do consistently well is packing out our arena even in the bad seasons. I suspect as well they might try to do the usual Hoops 4 Health and give away tickets to schools as well too. The other thing as well as in terms of expense depending on how far we progress will determine how much this is going to cost. Unlike London who had an extra 9 home matches becausd they had a full season of EuroCup basketball we could potentially end up only playing 3 or 4 extra games if we dont make it out the groups. So for a one off game like the home GB matches fans might be tempted to come mid week if it is only a rare occasion thing. |
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Post by SamH on Jul 2, 2023 20:53:30 GMT
You may also see fans of the other teams turning up. Most countries are way more into basketball than the uk, so if one of their home nation teams is playing here they'll turn out in droves, but wouldn't normally go to watch BBL. I remember a weeknight in Brighton when 700 rampant Lithuanians turned up when Rytas came to play the Bears. What an incredible atmosphere it was too!
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Post by blueskies99 on Jul 2, 2023 20:55:43 GMT
I will be fascinated to see how the Eagles (and to some extent, the other European entry teams) cope with the following…. How do you get people to attend a weekly European game in numbers when the next day is a school/work day? How do you get people to pay for two games a week? I will be fascinated as well to see how we cope with that. And I am wondering whether these games will be included in the season ticket or not. I believe London had a separate charge although I don't know what Leicester did for their Eurogames. I suppose it all comes down to how the Eagles market it I'm guessing and whether the tip off time will change for these games? Again one thing we tend to do consistently well is packing out our arena even in the bad seasons. I suspect as well they might try to do the usual Hoops 4 Health and give away tickets to schools as well too. The other thing as well as in terms of expense depending on how far we progress will determine how much this is going to cost. Unlike London who had an extra 9 home matches becausd they had a full season of EuroCup basketball we could potentially end up only playing 3 or 4 extra games if we dont make it out the groups. So for a one off game like the home GB matches fans might be tempted to come mid week if it is only a rare occasion thing. Riders European games were not included in the season ticket. Tip off times may be fixed to allow broadcasting of the games. |
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Post by spacejammer on Jul 2, 2023 21:18:17 GMT
You may also see fans of the other teams turning up. Most countries are way more into basketball than the uk, so if one of their home nation teams is playing here they'll turn out in droves, but wouldn't normally go to watch BBL. I remember a weeknight in Brighton when 700 rampant Lithuanians turned up when Rytas came to play the Bears. What an incredible atmosphere it was too! That's what I was wondering too. I noticed Israel was one of the countries on the list which is odd given its supposed to be a Northern European league and Israel is in the South. However when I watched Lions play I think it was Haepoli Televiv the away crowd that went to the Wembley Arena looked insane. And in my head I have the GB vs Lativia home game as well in my head which still is the most craziest game for fans I have ever been to. Although I was aware and knew of Kristaps Portzingas I really only expected a small group of Lativan fans going into the game. However I was absolutely gobsmacked when I turned up and saw a literal army of away supporter take over the entire arena with fans queuing across the car park even just to get in. I suppose depending upon who we are pipped against that will determine the fan following. Although on another note for the Gladiators. Given how they have to win a Qualifying match to get into their competition. I wonder what they will do if they don't manage to win it. In a way if BCL and the ENBL leagues are suppose to be the same. Then why on earth would you go through the hassle of a qualifying match if the Eagles and Flyers were allowed to just join there respective competitions? |
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Post by erj14 on Jul 2, 2023 22:38:44 GMT
I will be fascinated to see how the Eagles (and to some extent, the other European entry teams) cope with the following…. How do you get people to attend a weekly European game in numbers when the next day is a school/work day? How do you get people to pay for two games a week? Me too. I think it's going to be one of those things where you just have to try it and see. They're coming from a position of strength, so I think they have a good chance of getting decent crowds. There has certainly been some buzz amongst the parents of the other kids at my son's Eagles Foundation club, so that bodes well. I think if they can get an average of somewhere between 1,300 and 2,000, I'd consider that a modest success. I'm sure the club have done their sums and have an idea of what a break even number is. |
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Post by stepback3 on Jul 3, 2023 6:44:05 GMT
Enbl and bcl are not the same level? One is FIBA ran the other is not. Also if Gladiators dont qualify they drop into Europe Cup. Where I think they'll play 6 games 3 home/3 away.
Enbl doesn't matter where you place in your league you can apply to join. BCL you need to qualify for and meet different stipulations (arena size alone rules Flyers out) within your league.
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