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Post by topcata on Apr 6, 2022 12:09:58 GMT
I'm not sure KD left because of Russ though - those guys led the Thunder to fantastic seasons every year and should never have blown that 3-1 lead against golden state in 2016, they should have went to the finals. Now most competitive sports people would be keen, after a massive disappointment like that, to put things right the next year and get another bite of the cherry, right? But not KD, oh no - he leaves town...and goes joins the very team he lost to! Come on, if there's ever been a bigger bitch move in the history of the NBA, I'm still waiting to hear about it. Possibly Melo throwing a punch at the Knicks (while with Denver) and running away to the other end of the court...maybe. As for Kobe, I actually had a bigger issue with his fans more so than the man himself. I couldn't stand how over-hyped he was. Kobe fans would talk about how he was the GOAT, how he was MVP every year, this that and the other - when the stats and evidence clearly said otherwise. I think he had to be the most over-hyped player of all time, and yes I do have him in my all time top 20 as I say that. Top 20, not top 1 like the fanboys would tell us. Maybe top 15 but he's not top 10 for me. I also felt that Tim Duncan was constantly overlooked throughout their respective careers yet he was more successful and had better all around stats, an extra MVP and finals MVP - yet never got half the amount of coverage Kobe got just because he wasn't flash. That irked me a lot too. The fact he's passed away doesn't change any of that discussion but obviously I'm not going to slag the guy off when he's passed away, that would be pretty poor form! It was the rape allegations that did it for me with KB - but they seem to have been airbrushed out of his bio nowadays? |
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Post by hayesboy on Apr 6, 2022 12:25:04 GMT
Well he certainly worked extremely hard to change his reputation once he retired (to some degree in his last season). The circumstances of how the trial was dropped, the apology from Kobe Bryant and of course his subsequent settlement of the civil case are all well documented. In current times this would have almost certainly finished a celebrity but back in 2003/2004 clearly he was able to ride it out. At the end of the day he was not convicted of anything and that seemed enough for his legion of fans, the younger generation of NBA superstars who looked to him and of course his sponsors.
My recollection, and this is the quandary with him, was that he carried on playing all the way through the trial. This demonstrates and incredibly thick skin and iron will that no doubt contributed to his success and also to some of the issues many people had/may still have with him.
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Post by SamH on Apr 6, 2022 14:50:33 GMT
Voegl might be grateful to go at this point - he's a good coach and will be hired by someone else pretty soon. Next season really isn't looking much better for them unless they make some significant moves but even then it's to start rebuilding, not winning. As I said before I'd deal Westbrook for whatever I can get for him and look to trade AD while he still has some trade value. I'd look to go younger with those deals. Maybe pick up a nice piece in the draft, who knows. LeBron does have a no trade clause (I previously thought he didn't) and I think he'll be focussing on Kareem's scoring record next year. He knows even if he were traded to Cleveland, they aren't contenders with what they'd have to give up to get him - why not just wait until the 23/24 season and sign a 1 year deal with them then for one last shot at it?
So you have LeBron scoring 25-35 a night next season, playing probably around 75% of the games. With those trades I suggested, you get younger guys who will get plenty of minutes but not touches, but its a chance to learn the systems and get accustomed to one another for after LeBron is gone. You add another lottery pick next year too.
OR
You keep the same big 3 and next season is a disaster and then when LeBron leaves, Westbrook is over the hill and AD is broken down, you got nothing for your future either...
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Post by milehigh on Apr 7, 2022 12:06:22 GMT
Listening to ESPN radio nd the local Denver sports radio while driving, it seems that both Magic Johnson and Juliou Erving have said that Jokic should win his second MVP award this season.
Jokic is about to become the first player to achive 2000 points/1000 rebounds and 500 assists in a season ever, as well as to quote his coch, Mike Malone, "Carry the side for 50 games". Remember that Nuggets have had 2 of thier top 3 players out all season through injury.
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Post by hayesboy on Apr 7, 2022 12:55:33 GMT
I think Jokic and Embiid are almost inseparable as candidates. Both having superb seasons.
Prefer Jokic myself but I cannot really choose who is most worthy. Embiid was carrying a team himself until Hardens arrival.
Amazing to think that the death of the centre was being predicted!
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Post by SamH on Apr 7, 2022 14:48:48 GMT
I'd hedge Embiid because his team is higher up the standings. Not a fan of giving it to a guy on the 6th placed team thats going out in round 1. Doesn't happen too often either, though I think maybe the Thunder were 6th when Westbrook got it for his triple double season!
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Post by SamH on Apr 10, 2022 11:02:18 GMT
So, in case you were wondering how the chips are going to fall in the East, here's the breakdown *deep breath* : The East's play-in tournament race has as much excitement as the battle among the conference's top teams -- especially given the star-studded Brooklyn Nets find themselves in it. After Brooklyn's victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Friday night, the Nets are in the driver's seat for seventh, which they'll clinch with a win Sunday over Indiana. The Cavaliers, meanwhile, will be eighth if they beat the Bucks on Sunday at home. If either team loses, it will open the door for either Atlanta or Charlotte to get eighth. Atlanta travels to Houston on Sunday, while Charlotte hosts the Washington Wizards. Here's where things get wild: Brooklyn owns the head-to-head tiebreaker over Atlanta, Charlotte owns the head-to-head tiebreaker over Brooklyn and Atlanta has the tiebreaker on Charlotte, all by virtue of a better division record. Cleveland loses the tiebreaker against all three other teams. If Brooklyn and Cleveland both lose, and Atlanta and Charlotte both win -- creating a four-way tie -- it will be Brooklyn seventh, Atlanta eighth, Charlotte ninth and Cleveland 10th. If Brooklyn wins, Cleveland loses and Atlanta and Charlotte both win, creating a three-way tie for eighth, it will be the same order. If Cleveland wins, Brooklyn loses and both Atlanta and Charlotte win, it will be Cleveland seventh, Charlotte eighth, Brooklyn ninth and Atlanta 10th. Got all that? Good, cos I'll be testing you later  Actually I lifted that from ESPN - thank god there are people out there with enough time to figure it all out for us, huh? The only thing I'd say about this is that having the play-in for this scenario is actually a bit disappointing, because imagine the drama tonight if we had a situation where 4 teams were fighting for the last 2 playoff spots. That almost never happens down to the final day of the season and would have meant more drama. Instead all they're doing really now is jostling for position and home court advantage, but nobody is going home at the end of the night. I actually think the Cavs have a great chance of falling all the way to 10th which is incredible as they were in the 4-5-6 area most of the season. You fancy wins for the Hawks, Hornets and Nets tonight but the Bucks need a win to clinch the 2 seed, so you also fancy them to beat the Cavs. The West is far more set and I like the Clippers chances of nabbing the 7th seed as they're in good form all of a sudden now. You have to fancy Minnesota to pick off the Spurs or Pels for the other seed but who knows, it's only one game! |
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Post by milehigh on Apr 10, 2022 13:13:15 GMT
2000 points, 1000 rebounds, 500 assists in a season, the firt time it's ver been achieved. A player that makes those arounf him better, endorced by Magic, Dr J and others.
The MVP has to be Jokic, nobody else comes close.
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Post by SamH on Apr 11, 2022 1:42:53 GMT
Well how about that, in the end all 4 won so the order didn't change. Credit the Cavs for getting it done against the Bucks, that was impressive.
Edit - scratch that, just read the Bucks rested everyone and I realised why - they want the 3 seed and the fading Bulls, rather than the Nets in the 2-7 bracket! Ha! Boston got screwed. But...you still have to see them in round 2 anyway Bucks!
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Post by hayesboy on Apr 11, 2022 7:54:49 GMT
It was all Franks fault apparently then?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 9:09:05 GMT
Celtics-Nets will be very interesting if it does happen, a first round exit is pretty disastrous for both imo
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 9:11:12 GMT
It was all Franks fault apparently then? It definitely isn’t all on him, in fact he is probably not top three in the reasons for why they’ve been so bad, but he is and always has been a pretty mediocre coach, his career was going nowhere before getting the job and now he has an NBA championship and he’s guaranteed to get a decent job in the near future, all that is definitely worth the media circus he’s had to endure which is part of the territory both of coaching LeBron and the Lakers |
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Post by SamH on Apr 11, 2022 10:08:27 GMT
No surprise he's gone but I can't see a different coach turning it around. They need to rebuild. I think Vogel is a good coach though, he did well in Indiana and they went downhill as soon as they fired him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 11:43:31 GMT
No surprise he's gone but I can't see a different coach turning it around. They need to rebuild. I think Vogel is a good coach though, he did well in Indiana and they went downhill as soon as they fired him. I think if Philly underachieve in the play-offs Doc Rivers will probably end up at the Lakers which I cannot see ending well |
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Post by SamH on Apr 11, 2022 12:47:54 GMT
Maybe - but Doc has only been in post there for 2 seasons, they might stick with him, given Harden hasn't been there that long. I don't really think there is a coach that can turn the Lakers round, I dont think its down to coaching but chemistry and age.
Anyway, to the playoffs! Fancy all the 7 and 8 seeds to qualify and then we'll have to get some series predictions going.
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Post by SamH on Apr 12, 2022 9:54:44 GMT
Watching Around the Horn today I learned that the Lakers don't actually have a first round draft pick until 2025! Ouch. So no nice piece coming to them that way. Seems to me they're pretty screwed next season - I wonder which head coach wants to take that gig on. Doc Rivers did get mentioned, along with Nick Nurse and Juwan Howard. I don't see why Nurse would leave Toronto for that job, and doubt he'll be fired so not sure why his name came up.
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Post by hayesboy on Apr 12, 2022 10:13:34 GMT
I see Westbrook has very nicely thrown Vogel under the team bus! That interview (its on ESPN cannot be bothered to link) is totally unnecessary in the immediate aftermath of the guy getting sacked.
It does point though to the underlying issues that have been clearly ongoing as well as the obvious on court ones. I don't think Lebron James leadership style helps. He seems prone to being passive aggressive.
Westbrook is a real conundrum of a player. Not easy to incorporate into a strategy clearly. He is also a statistical anomaly. Statistically he can look brilliant or bad depending on what you want to focus on.
I wonder if his best role now would be like a high rental/high quality Bruce Brown at the Nets?
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Post by erj14 on Apr 12, 2022 10:35:14 GMT
I see Westbrook has very nicely thrown Vogel under the team bus! That interview (its on ESPN cannot be bothered to link) is totally unnecessary in the immediate aftermath of the guy getting sacked. It does point though to the underlying issues that have been clearly ongoing as well as the obvious on court ones. I don't think Lebron James leadership style helps. He seems prone to being passive aggressive. Westbrook is a real conundrum of a player. Not easy to incorporate into a strategy clearly. He is also a statistical anomaly. Statistically he can look brilliant or bad depending on what you want to focus on. I wonder if his best role now would be like a high rental/high quality Bruce Brown at the Nets? I just don't think he's a winning player. Athletically he's amazing but he just doesn't have it mentally. He has always made bad decisions at the end of tight games, on both ends of the floor. Defensively he is terrible. If he had the ability to mentally accept a lesser role, and maybe lead a second unit (Lou Williams style) he would perhaps be an assett to a team. Though i think there are other options out there not making $49 million a year! I don't think he's capable of accepting that though. |
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Post by SamH on Apr 12, 2022 12:59:28 GMT
He'll get there eventually, same as Melo did - once they realise no one wants them and their best bet is as a role player off the bench. Melo adapted really well to that once he accepted his superstar days were over.
As for Vogel, everyone is saying it's not his fault (except Russ!) and lets not forget he won a championship just 2 years ago, in very difficult circumstances. He deserves credit for that - for me, if Vogel is sacked then Rob Pelinka should go as well, as he put this team together and it's been a huge flop.
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Post by erj14 on Apr 12, 2022 13:16:13 GMT
He'll get there eventually, same as Melo did - once they realise no one wants them and their best bet is as a role player off the bench. Melo adapted really well to that once he accepted his superstar days were over. As for Vogel, everyone is saying it's not his fault (except Russ!) and lets not forget he won a championship just 2 years ago, in very difficult circumstances. He deserves credit for that - for me, if Vogel is sacked then Rob Pelinka should go as well, as he put this team together and it's been a huge flop. It's normally the way it goes though, team underperforms then the GM blames the coach. Another bad season and then the GM goes. Really the problem with the Lakers is the ownership, that's a harder one to get rid of. The front office there has been a joke for years, they got unbelievably lucky that LeBron decided he wanted to make Space Jam and they've still made a mess of things after that title. On 'Melo I'd agree to a certain extent, but he's still not a winning player. Every decent team attacked him defensively last year when he was at Portland. At least he stayed in the league though, I guess. |
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Actually I lifted that from ESPN - thank god there are people out there with enough time to figure it all out for us, huh? The only thing I'd say about this is that having the play-in for this scenario is actually a bit disappointing, because imagine the drama tonight if we had a situation where 4 teams were fighting for the last 2 playoff spots. That almost never happens down to the final day of the season and would have meant more drama. Instead all they're doing really now is jostling for position and home court advantage, but nobody is going home at the end of the night. 
