LeBron James all time scoring thread

[baldereagle]

Yup - just the one! Makes you wonder if LBJ will ever reach his number of field goals….

[tallerman]

If Lebron had took the same amount of shots as Jordan he'd had 48,000 points

[SamH]

Are you sure about that? I can't find the total number of shots taken but mj has a slightly higher FG% so surely he's taken fewer shots? Or do you mean shots per game based on Mike playing as many games as LeBron has? In which case mj would also probably have 48,000!

[SamH]

I'm not saying LeBron doesn't make players around him better but I don't think to any noticeable extent. He carried one team to the finals in 2007 but the east was garbage that year and the Spurs, a real team, swept the series easily. I'd say in that situation LeBron was doing the heavy lifting, not because he made his scrub team mates better.

The rest of his runs to the finals he had really good support! But his finals record is poor. I know it's better to make the final than not, but mj never even came close to losing a finals series, he willed his team whatever it took (e.g the flu game).

Besides, LeBron hasn't won the dunk contest either. 🤣

[kl23]

With Bron now having the all-time scoring title, does this cement the case for him being the GOAT over Michael Jordan.

[tallerman]

Feb 8, 2023 19:06:47 GMT SamH said:

Are you sure about that? I can't find the total number of shots taken but mj has a slightly higher FG% so surely he's taken fewer shots? Or do you mean shots per game based on Mike playing as many games as LeBron has? In which case mj would also probably have 48,000!

Its in the comparable stats. I dont remember them off by heart but the amound of shots jordan took per game given to lebron on his field goal percentage gives him the extra

[SamH]

I have found it - MJ did indeed average about 3 shots more per game than LeBron and about half a free throw more. But he shot a higher percentage so arguably he should shoot more as he hits at a higher clip.

This article here is very interesting and pretty much puts forth all the arguments and points for us! www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-lebron-james-broke-the-nbas-all-time-scoring-record-and-why-michael-jordan-did-not/#:~:text=LeBron%20James%20and%20Michael%20Jordan,for%20James%20in%20his%2020.

The bit about the triangle offense being designed to reign Jordan in is true, as I was reading about that in the Jordan Rules book recently. Phil Jackson knew he had to get Jordan to share more as they couldn't get past the Pistons the way he was playing hero-ball. This is why I allued to him not making players around him better in the first half of his career. Once Phil got the triangle going and Jordan buying in, everything worked so much better.

[SamH]

And I also want to put this forward - did you watch the NBA in the 90s? Jesus, scores like 88-81 were commonplace. Scores over 100 were fairly rare. It was all about defence and grit and grind yet Mike still got 30, 35 a night each season. Imagine what he'd do with today's lack of defence and increased floor spacing, not to mention today's soft NBA where rough play has been gotten rid of. There would be no Jordan rules, there would be no putting him on his arse every time he drives to the hoop, no shoulder barging him with 7 foot monsters. Whew....I think he might have gone for 45 a night in today's NBA!

ok enough, I'm sounding like too much of a MJ homer even for my own liking!

[tallerman]

Its quite interesting the debate of defence and the completely inaccurate memory we have of it. Much more scoring today, theres no debate about it, i disagree with there being this vastly better defence now though. Theres a great theory, i can't remember who it was from but he basically said the problem isnt todays defence is worse, its the fact that todays offence is so much better than your only hope is players miss and you get the rebound. While its not completely true theres definitely an element of truth in it.

There a youtuber called JXMY Highroller, hes done some excellent breakdown of things like the hand check rule and players at or reaching their prime or did significantly better before it was introduced, theres one about the rough and tumble fouls of the bad boy pistons in the playoffs against Jordan and how many of them just weren't dirty or rough at all. Ill find the video, its such a good watch because we all remember those guys constantly beating up players

[dexter]

A nice article about this is on the BBC. But not in the sports section. It’s on Newsbeat which is news tailored for a younger audience.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-64573713

I actually agree with this article . I wore my LA Lakers jacket to work. I had only positive comments, basketball was discussed in our morning meeting, and I even discovered I work with an NBA fan. This all came about because of James’s scoring record.

[SamH]

Feb 8, 2023 21:25:30 GMT tallerman said:

Its quite interesting the debate of defence and the completely inaccurate memory we have of it. Much more scoring today, theres no debate about it, i disagree with there being this vastly better defence now though. Theres a great theory, i can't remember who it was from but he basically said the problem isnt todays defence is worse, its the fact that todays offence is so much better than your only hope is players miss and you get the rebound. While its not completely true theres definitely an element of truth in it.

There a youtuber called JXMY Highroller, hes done some excellent breakdown of things like the hand check rule and players at or reaching their prime or did significantly better before it was introduced, theres one about the rough and tumble fouls of the bad boy pistons in the playoffs against Jordan and how many of them just weren't dirty or rough at all. Ill find the video, its such a good watch because we all remember those guys constantly beating up players

I think this also a factor - the offense today is better because they changed the rules on things like hand checking and zone defence - deliberately, as they wanted more scoring. They felt low scoring games were hurting the product though I disagree - I got in the NBA around that time and loved it, so for me 90 point games was all I knew. A season or 2 ago there was a worryingly high number of 140+ scores going up for a while which I don't think is entertaining viewing at all, it's like an all star game then. But 100-115 is good. You have to also think that in today's game Mike would have developed his 3 point shot waaaay more than he did and hit a lot more of them. He was a shooting guard who was ball dominant so it's practically assured that he would have done that. However I don't know if that increases your point total really because you obviously miss a lot more shots if you take more 3s, so does the extra point on the made ones make up for all the 2 pointers you would have scored if you focussed on those instead? I bet there isn't that much in it.

[SamH]

They had the same debate on Around the Horn today, interesting the 2 older debaters favoured Jordan, the 2 younger ones LeBron. The point I liked was, who are you going with to win game 7 of the NBA finals? Mike had that killer instinct, as they said, you think in the same situation MJ loses that game to the Thunder? LeBron scored 2 points in the 4th after getting the record and they lost a game they needed to win.

Perhaps that's the difference...

[tallerman]

Any superstar dominates in any generation, thats a given. Does MJ lose the game? Well never know, he never played with that load on his body for so long. If he could've got past the mental side he struggled with he shouldve had 8 rings minimum. Guess that's his floor, all the greats have them.

[SamH]

Yeah I wish so much he hadn't played baseball, if only to see the Olajuwon Rockets v MJs Bulls in the finals. That would have been fantastic especially when Drexler joined Houston too.

Part of that was due to the murder of his dad so it's understandable but being selfish I wish he would have just kept going. It's been suggested he was so far ahead of everyone else that he just didn't see it as a challenge anymore after winning the 3 straight titles, not sure about that but he certainly returned in 1995 ready for more!

[tallerman]

Yep! And 8 straight in the 90s leaves no debate against lebron too

[SamH]

So lets continue the appreciation shall we? I saw an unbelievable stat on the nba live preview show last night. They put up the points per game guys averaged in their 21st season in the league (of which there are only a handful).

Vince Carter was just over 7ppg and it went down from there. Kevin Garnett was at 3.2ppg. Basically you are well and truly done by this point no matter how great you had been. Nowitzki, Parish, Kevin Willis, all averaging peanuts in year 21.

LeBron? Oh, he's just sitting there slightly ahead of those guys, averaging...25 points per game!😱 Yup.

Seeing that graphic really puts it in perspective. LeBron is going to set all kinds of age related records that might never be broken. The guy is a complete freak of nature!

[SamH]

LeBron has now broken the 40,000 points barrier. I don't think we'll see anyone else achieve that in our lifetimes. Absolutely amazing. 👏

[cosbyrider]

Yeah but he was bloody terrible in Spacejam 2. Whereas MJ did a decent job acting

[SamH]

Wow, just take a look at this - read the first half of it about LeBron and all these outrageous records he is now on course to set next season. The guy is unbelievable, to still be a top player at nearly 40 and after 21 seasons in the league. It's freakish on a level we've never seen before. Robert Parish was still in the league at 43 I believe, and won a ring with the Bulls in his final season - but he barely played and when he did it was almost embarrassing watching him labour up and down the court. I don't think LeBron plays to that age but if he was willing to accept a reduced role as old father time finally does catch up, then he definitely could.

www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41112697/2024-2025-nba-milestones-lebron-james-nikola-jokic-stephen-curry

[massiveridersfan]

Watching LeBron play in the Olympics was revelatory - he had such an impact as a scorer and passer. His determination to win was also inspirational to his teammates. He just won't give up.