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Post by vefriga on Jul 5, 2022 15:37:04 GMT
link to article at EurohoopsI thought it was an interesting read and if you scroll to the bottom you can actually see the powerpoint show PDF with a lot more detail involved. Euroleague seems to get talked about a lot on the hockey side of things when it comes to Champions League style tournaments in European hockey for example. However, it seems Euroleague basketball teams are in the same boat as Euro hockey teams - rich owners financing the losses. The article points out that all EL teams, except one, ALBA Berlin, are losing a lot of money each season. ALBA Berlin are the only team to show that they are self sustainable. They have shown a €107k euro profit in the 2019-20 season (the report using 2015-2019 as their guide) Some highlights of the finances. FC Barcelona Basketball annual losses 2015 -€22.5m 2016 -€23.2m 2017 -€28.8m 2018 -€22.3m 2019 -€34.6m The team has spent anywhere from €24m to €34m on salaries, depending on the season. Real Madrid Basketball over the same period, average losses of -€23.8m FC Bayern Munich, while they don't lose as much, are still not making any money and with the same setup as Barcelona and Madrid, their costs are being covered by the football/soccer team. Although Bayern are looking to make themselves self sustainable in Basketball. Fenerbahce from Turkey reported loses of around -€9m. Euroleague itself made a loses of -€7m, but they were covered by a partnership with IMG It does state that the owners of the EL teams are currently happy with the situation and are willing to cover costs. Currently the league allows for a team's cost of up to 50% to be covered by shareholder/direct investment from the owner.
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Post by spacejammer on Jul 5, 2022 17:37:31 GMT
That's a bit of a shock.
If the Euroleague collapsed I wonder what it would mean for basketball outside the NBA?
As well as players who don't make it to the NBA?
If the teams currently I it are struggling then the hope of a BBL team making it to the top level one day might never he able to play at that level.
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Post by vefriga on Jul 5, 2022 18:40:02 GMT
That's a bit of a shock. If the Euroleague collapsed I wonder what it would mean for basketball outside the NBA? As well as players who don't make it to the NBA? If the teams currently I it are struggling then the hope of a BBL team making it to the top level one day might never he able to play at that level. Well as they say the owners are currently happy with the situation and to cover up to 50% of the costs to keep it going, though from a financial point of view, a team like London, might not have the same outlook on that in the future if it doesn't improve. It shows that Brose Bamburg (I belive their name is spelt) made profit once they left Euroleague and went to Champions League. Though EL is clearly the better competition at present, they just need to find a way to market it better and keep the teams financially stable. |
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Post by irf on Jul 5, 2022 19:15:32 GMT
link to article at EurohoopsI thought it was an interesting read and if you scroll to the bottom you can actually see the powerpoint show PDF with a lot more detail involved. Euroleague seems to get talked about a lot on the hockey side of things when it comes to Champions League style tournaments in European hockey for example. However, it seems Euroleague basketball teams are in the same boat as Euro hockey teams - rich owners financing the losses. The article points out that all EL teams, except one, ALBA Berlin, are losing a lot of money each season. ALBA Berlin are the only team to show that they are self sustainable. They have shown a €107k euro profit in the 2019-20 season (the report using 2015-2019 as their guide) Some highlights of the finances. FC Barcelona Basketball annual losses 2015 -€22.5m 2016 -€23.2m 2017 -€28.8m 2018 -€22.3m 2019 -€34.6m The team has spent anywhere from €24m to €34m on salaries, depending on the season. Real Madrid Basketball over the same period, average losses of -€23.8m FC Bayern Munich, while they don't lose as much, are still not making any money and with the same setup as Barcelona and Madrid, their costs are being covered by the football/soccer team. Although Bayern are looking to make themselves self sustainable in Basketball. Fenerbahce from Turkey reported loses of around -€9m. Euroleague itself made a loses of -€7m, but they were covered by a partnership with IMG It does state that the owners of the EL teams are currently happy with the situation and are willing to cover costs. Currently the league allows for a team's cost of up to 50% to be covered by shareholder/direct investment from the owner. Re Barcelona that may seem worrying But not a fraction as worrying as the 480M Euro loss their football team reported in their last accounts Currently 1.35 Billion Euros in debt Whatever happens to the basketball team is peanuts in comparison A legendary sports club/brand with incredible financial problems right now |
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Post by dexter on Jul 5, 2022 19:53:18 GMT
What is important is how sustainable these sports clubs are in their entirety. It would be interesting to see how much of a loss EuroCup teams make. I expect the player salaries in EuroCup are a lot lower.
I do think Euroleague has a lot of potential to increase broadcasting revenue, and for the clubs to sell a lot more merch. A lot more people could be watching Euroleague and supporting the clubs. Just in the UK it should have a proper deal with one of our sports channels, with a weekly program rather than just the odd game shown without any built up or analysis.
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Post by ScottishBasketballFan on Jul 5, 2022 20:44:40 GMT
Although it collapsed in NFL, they had NFL Europe then Europa. Since then there's been a revival of sorts with no NFL influence en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_League_of_FootballSome of the teams in this league used to be in NFL Europe, like Barcelona Dragons In Ice hockey there are 2 Euro competitions, the Champions Hockey League & IIHF Continental Cup, there was a CHL before but it didn't last long. The newer CHL has been going since 2014/15. The CC winner gets entry to the CHL, unless it's a Kazakhstani team as it was deemed too far to travel. For me, European basketball would benefit from a complete overhaul. Have strictly 2 competitions, CBL or Champions Basketball League and Euroball Cup. CBL would see the Champions of the top 8 leagues get auto entry into the Group Stage as founding clubs with the next 8 picked based on league postion. The 3rd set of 8 would be teams who've qualified via winning their domestic cup, or next highest placed team in one of those 8 leagues not already qualified. Then finally 7 Wild Card entries from minnow countries, such as ours and the winner of the Euroball Cup. The Euroball Cup would strictly be for weaker minnows that don't already get into the CBL. There'd be a few playoffs then a Super Final Group Stage, winner of which qualifies for the CBL. I just feel you need to try new things, if Euroleague collapses then you need to alter the format and the financial model. |
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Post by dexter on Jul 5, 2022 20:58:20 GMT
I don't think there's any risk of Euroleague collapsing. Euroleague is essentially the basketball version of the European Super League that the biggest European football teams tried to set up and probably still want to. It's a cartel and it's what they want.
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Post by vefriga on Jul 5, 2022 22:02:09 GMT
link to article at EurohoopsI thought it was an interesting read and if you scroll to the bottom you can actually see the powerpoint show PDF with a lot more detail involved. Euroleague seems to get talked about a lot on the hockey side of things when it comes to Champions League style tournaments in European hockey for example. However, it seems Euroleague basketball teams are in the same boat as Euro hockey teams - rich owners financing the losses. The article points out that all EL teams, except one, ALBA Berlin, are losing a lot of money each season. ALBA Berlin are the only team to show that they are self sustainable. They have shown a €107k euro profit in the 2019-20 season (the report using 2015-2019 as their guide) Some highlights of the finances. FC Barcelona Basketball annual losses 2015 -€22.5m 2016 -€23.2m 2017 -€28.8m 2018 -€22.3m 2019 -€34.6m The team has spent anywhere from €24m to €34m on salaries, depending on the season. Real Madrid Basketball over the same period, average losses of -€23.8m FC Bayern Munich, while they don't lose as much, are still not making any money and with the same setup as Barcelona and Madrid, their costs are being covered by the football/soccer team. Although Bayern are looking to make themselves self sustainable in Basketball. Fenerbahce from Turkey reported loses of around -€9m. Euroleague itself made a loses of -€7m, but they were covered by a partnership with IMG It does state that the owners of the EL teams are currently happy with the situation and are willing to cover costs. Currently the league allows for a team's cost of up to 50% to be covered by shareholder/direct investment from the owner. Re Barcelona that may seem worrying But not a fraction as worrying as the 480M Euro loss their football team reported in their last accounts Currently 1.35 Billion Euros in debt Whatever happens to the basketball team is peanuts in comparison A legendary sports club/brand with incredible financial problems right now According to the report. Barcelona and Madrid is fully funded through their football income, the basketball teams that is. Bayern Munich is a separate entity within the FC club and is trying to be self sufficient. |
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Post by vefriga on Jul 5, 2022 22:04:54 GMT
Although it collapsed in NFL, they had NFL Europe then Europa. Since then there's been a revival of sorts with no NFL influence en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_League_of_FootballSome of the teams in this league used to be in NFL Europe, like Barcelona Dragons In Ice hockey there are 2 Euro competitions, the Champions Hockey League & IIHF Continental Cup, there was a CHL before but it didn't last long. The newer CHL has been going since 2014/15. The CC winner gets entry to the CHL, unless it's a Kazakhstani team as it was deemed too far to travel. For me, European basketball would benefit from a complete overhaul. Have strictly 2 competitions, CBL or Champions Basketball League and Euroball Cup. CBL would see the Champions of the top 8 leagues get auto entry into the Group Stage as founding clubs with the next 8 picked based on league postion. The 3rd set of 8 would be teams who've qualified via winning their domestic cup, or next highest placed team in one of those 8 leagues not already qualified. Then finally 7 Wild Card entries from minnow countries, such as ours and the winner of the Euroball Cup. The Euroball Cup would strictly be for weaker minnows that don't already get into the CBL. There'd be a few playoffs then a Super Final Group Stage, winner of which qualifies for the CBL. I just feel you need to try new things, if Euroleague collapses then you need to alter the format and the financial model. [br I agree having Euroleague, EuroCup and Champions League is too much and makes it awkward for teams. An example is Fenebache are under contract to Euroleague for X amount of years and the fine for breaking that agreement is said to be around €2m. So to stop them jumping ship to the Champions League for example. Euroleague, as per the study on finances, one of the main aims for the new CEO is better cooperation with FIBA |
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sm11
Bench Warmer
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Post by sm11 on Jul 6, 2022 9:16:08 GMT
I think to an extent almost all professional sport seems to lose money. Whether BBL, euroleague, Championship Football, even Premier League Football, most clubs involved are spending way beyond there means. Theres quite a lot of chat on these boards here dismissing 90's BBL because it was supposedly unsustainable back then. Well all sport is unsustainable. The measure of how successful a sports league is shouldnt be by how profitable it is but rather to do with how much investment its attracting. The only professional sports model that supposedly ensures profit is the US sports salary cap based model, the americans swear by it but when the NBA or NFL etc goes into a lock out suddenly the franchise owners are crying that there all losing money so who knows what to believe.
In the case of the Euroleague it clearly still seems to be receiving plenty of investment. The problem with the euroleague is that the investment is funneled into just a few clubs and the rest of european professional basketball is left struggling.
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Post by SamH on Jul 6, 2022 9:35:32 GMT
The US model is also based largely around TV revenue and how it's distributed between players (affecting the salary cap and upper pay limits) and the owners.
I don't know if the same applies in Europe? I assume the bigger, better leagues have pretty good TV exposure but how much of the revenue from that do they receive.
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Post by vefriga on Jul 6, 2022 17:26:22 GMT
The US model is also based largely around TV revenue and how it's distributed between players (affecting the salary cap and upper pay limits) and the owners. I don't know if the same applies in Europe? I assume the bigger, better leagues have pretty good TV exposure but how much of the revenue from that do they receive. Barcelona Basketball received €3.9m from TV broadcasting & TV Rights in the 2020/21 season Real Madrid €3.4m The TV deal for the Spanish league is reported to be 50% up on the previous, but no financials were released I mean if each Spanish team gets €3m+ from this deal that is good, until they go to Euro league, and it barely pays for two top players. I would highly doubt that Euroleague TV rights are shared between the teams |
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Post by dexter on Jul 10, 2022 9:51:52 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 10:02:02 GMT
So Lions are going to need to spend almost as much as the rest of the league combined just to play in the Eurocup?
Whilst getting sub 1000 crowds most of the time?
How unearth is that remotely sustainable, even in the short term I can’t see how that is going to work
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Post by vefriga on Jul 10, 2022 13:17:37 GMT
So Lions are going to need to spend almost as much as the rest of the league combined just to play in the Eurocup? Whilst getting sub 1000 crowds most of the time? How unearth is that remotely sustainable, even in the short term I can’t see how that is going to work 777 Investments are going to have to invest a lot more than they planned, it seems. Interesting how shareholder funds can cover 65% and player salaries cannot go above 65%! While trying to make sure teams are sustainable is a very good thing, the EuroCup is the second level, so it might prove difficult for lower teams like London and force them all to look at the Champions League in the future. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 14:24:21 GMT
So Lions are going to need to spend almost as much as the rest of the league combined just to play in the Eurocup? Whilst getting sub 1000 crowds most of the time? How unearth is that remotely sustainable, even in the short term I can’t see how that is going to work 777 Investments are going to have to invest a lot more than they planned, it seems. Interesting how shareholder funds can cover 65% and player salaries cannot go above 65%! While trying to make sure teams are sustainable is a very good thing, the EuroCup is the second level, so it might prove difficult for lower teams like London and force them all to look at the Champions League in the future. I am sure they were aware of this before they joined in fairness, I would guess there is either a couple of years grace period or it just won’t be strictly enforced imo, I can’t really see any other alternative |
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Post by dexter on Jul 10, 2022 14:39:44 GMT
777 Investments are going to have to invest a lot more than they planned, it seems. Interesting how shareholder funds can cover 65% and player salaries cannot go above 65%! While trying to make sure teams are sustainable is a very good thing, the EuroCup is the second level, so it might prove difficult for lower teams like London and force them all to look at the Champions League in the future. I am sure they were aware of this before they joined in fairness, I would guess there is either a couple of years grace period or it just won’t be strictly enforced imo, I can’t really see any other alternative Yeah how on earth are London Lions going to generate the 875k Euros per year they need to meet these conditions? |
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Post by vefriga on Jul 10, 2022 15:07:14 GMT
I am sure they were aware of this before they joined in fairness, I would guess there is either a couple of years grace period or it just won’t be strictly enforced imo, I can’t really see any other alternative Yeah how on earth are London Lions going to generate the 875k Euros per year they need to meet these conditions? "sponsorships" |
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Post by dexter on Jul 10, 2022 15:12:43 GMT
Yeah how on earth are London Lions going to generate the 875k Euros per year they need to meet these conditions? "sponsorships" Yes that is what they need. I wonder if London itself can provide some sponsorship. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 16:06:28 GMT
I think he’s implying dodgy sponsorships like a lot of football teams do, Where they get sponsored by a company that is owned by the same person that owns the football team so they basically paying extortionately high Sponsorship essentially to themselves to boost their income to comply with the financial rules
I don’t think anyone is going to be coughing up big money to sponsor the lions in all honesty, maybe if they do one of those naming rights deals like Glasgow rocks do
I seem to remember Russell Levenston saying Riders entrance into Europe the last time was basically covered by Jelson homes sponsorship money but I also think he said that came to about 50 K or something like that
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