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Post by SamH on Jun 12, 2022 20:10:51 GMT
Has anyone else read this book, by Sam Smith? I'm reading it now and it's fascinating as well as nostalgic. The book is a recent print with a prologue about the Last Dance, which in some ways mirrors the book.
There's also a small piece of regret reading it as you realise, much like watching the Last Dance, that your hero was in fact a massive A-hole! 🤣 But I find it interesting MJ was like that against management too as he felt they weren't assembling a competitive team around him, but when he tried that or now as an owner, he hasn't achieved anything!
Anyway it's an excellent read.
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Post by milehigh on Jun 13, 2022 9:26:54 GMT
The is a good book about his time as GM, and player, at Washington. It doesnt show Jordan in a good light, and that he's not the right person to be a GM.
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Post by spacejammer on Jun 13, 2022 12:36:20 GMT
Has anyone else read this book, by Sam Smith? I'm reading it now and it's fascinating as well as nostalgic. The book is a recent print with a prologue about the Last Dance, which in some ways mirrors the book. There's also a small piece of regret reading it as you realise, much like watching the Last Dance, that your hero was in fact a massive A-hole! 🤣 But I find it interesting MJ was like that against management too as he felt they weren't assembling a competitive team around him, but when he tried that or now as an owner, he hasn't achieved anything! Anyway it's an excellent read. I loved the Last Dance but the thing with MJ as well as all team sports athletes is you can have a legendary player in the team but if you don't have a team to play around them then you ain't winning a tittle. It was why at the start of this years finals I thought GSW were going to win 4-2 against Boston because they had a great team complex of Curry, Thompson, Green and many others as well as experience. As well as a head coach in Steve Kerr who played with MJ back in the day who knows all about coming off the bench. But now I'm starting to feel Celetics might have the edge on them and have been the stronger team in my eyes over 4 games and may now win. With regards to MJ as an owner it just goes to show just because someone was a fantastic player doesn't mean they'll be just as successful in other areas of the sport. The same way how certain bench players or journey men/women in sport end up being more successful in other areas of sport. On another note watching the finals this I do wonder how Lakers fans would feel if Celetics were to become the team to have won the most ever NBA Championships. Bet they must be sweating right now going into Game 5. |
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Post by SamH on Jun 14, 2022 19:38:09 GMT
Yes, this is why Wilt's teams could never overcome the all around brilliant Celtics, because Wilt wasn't a team player so he didn't have decent people around him most of the time. He was no doubt the best player on the floor but the next 7 or 8 best were all Celtics, at least until Wilt got to the Lakers.
I do think the Bulls management deserve some credit, obviously for trading to get Pippen, but also getting Phil Jackson as coach (or, realising he would be a good coach) and later acquiring Rodman for....Will Perdue!! LOL! I know the Spurs were desperate to be rid of Rodman as he didn't fit their David Robinson/Avery Johnson church going, shirts tucked in, stand up for the teacher image the Spurs were going for at that time - but Will Perdue?! Wow. Krause robbed them blind on that one.
MJ as an owner is an interesting one as it seems like for the most part he stays out of the way, out of the news - not seemingly doing much. I would have expected him to be the over-bearing, overly demanding team owner constantly changing managers, coaches and players to try and find a winning formula, but its almost as if he's happy to just drift along being a middle of the pack team. Very odd.
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Post by SamH on Jul 17, 2022 22:19:13 GMT
So Im slowly getting through the book and it's fan-bloody-tastic. The nostalgia, but also the nuggets you pick up, what you learn. Two big takeaways for me so far - one, how little the players got paid back then. Many on less than $1m a year. $3m was considered really good. It goes to show how off the scale it is now. Secondly, I've never been a big Phil Jackson fan and never given him much credit - but it transpires he is almost solely responsible for getting Jordan to change his style of play to be more team-embracing. He realised the way they had been playing under Doug Collins which was basically get the ball to MJ and get out the way, was not getting them past Detroit in the playoffs. Now, it was a huge challenge to get Jordan to change how he played, and he didn't have the support of management or some of the other coaches either, but it obviously worked.
I often give Jordan credit in my arguments as to why he's still the GOAT, that he made guys around him better. Having read this book, I now see that he didn't start out that way and it was actually Jackson's influence that achieved that. So there we go, after 25 years of saying my grandma could have won with the teams Jackson had, I have to now re-consider and give him some credit!
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Post by spacejammer on Jul 17, 2022 22:32:22 GMT
So Im slowly getting through the book and it's fan-bloody-tastic. The nostalgia, but also the nuggets you pick up, what you learn. Two big takeaways for me so far - one, how little the players got paid back then. Many on less than $1m a year. $3m was considered really good. It goes to show how off the scale it is now. Secondly, I've never been a big Phil Jackson fan and never given him much credit - but it transpires he is almost solely responsible for getting Jordan to change his style of play to be more team-embracing. He realised the way they had been playing under Doug Collins which was basically get the ball to MJ and get out the way, was not getting them past Detroit in the playoffs. Now, it was a huge challenge to get Jordan to change how he played, and he didn't have the support of management or some of the other coaches either, but it obviously worked. I often give Jordan credit in my arguments as to why he's still the GOAT, that he made guys around him better. Having read this book, I now see that he didn't start out that way and it was actually Jackson's influence that achieved that. So there we go, after 25 years of saying my grandma could have won with the teams Jackson had, I have to now re-consider and give him some credit! To me it sounds like what your saying although their are MVP's and G.O.A.T's in all sports and team sports. At the end of the day the Micheal Jordan, LeBron James and Kobe Bryant players etc... would have never had all the success they had if it weren't for the other players and backroom staff around them. The recent champions Golden State with Steph Currey and BBL example Leicester Riders with Geno Crandell are an example of this. Sure both those players on any team in their respective leagues would be a huge asset to their clubs. But if you don't have the right players, coaches or behind the scenes people around them. Then that would most likely hinder their success. Look what happened to Steph in the 2019 NBA finals vs the Raptors when Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant were out injured. When Steph was left with a bunch of rookie team players he struggled to beat a well constructed Raptors team that year and couldn't carry the team alone. Or when London Lions had the likes of Drew Sullivan, Zaire Taylor and Alex Owuni and were set to look like super team which in the end didn't quite work out and was like watching a bunch of induviduals. Point is even with Jordan if it weren't for Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, Rodman. Steve Kerr he would never have been able to do it alone had he not had the right players round him. Which you could argue was the reason LeBron left Cleveland as well. |
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Post by SamH on Jul 17, 2022 23:49:18 GMT
That's definitely true and one reason Jerry West only got 1 ring, because the team around him was never quite good enough to get over the final hurdle and win those finals he lost in. Whereas Magic and Kareem had each other, plus other talented people.
But it is also about how you play. Wilt was the dominant player much like Jordan, able to do what he wanted, but only won 2 rings playing that way. Russell was the team first guy of that era and no doubt that helped make the players around him even better than they already were.
Perhaps without Jackson, Jordan would have continued as his generations Wilt, won a couple of rings and averaged 40 points for a few seasons. We'd look back and say he was too selfish which is why he didn't win more and we'd like James Harden to him which is pretty funny to think about!
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